CAS Rifles

[Tensleep]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

My observation...
My wife shoots a Marlin and it does a very good job for her, after having a MAJOR action job.

It seems that every match I attend, I see at least one, if not more, "Marlin jambs."
MANY Marlins are also very OAL sensitive.

[Camille Eonich]

Look, this is just my observation, that's all.  It's not blanket advice.

That's all my reply was...

[Cyrille]

The only Marlin I own is in 30-30 Winchestercaliber, I use it only for hunting, so it is not fired rapidly or a whole lot I know that I've never emptied the magazine while hunting, in fact I never fully load it I put only three bullets in the rifle when I hunt. The second shot is if I somehow miss or the animal moves as I squeeze the trigger, the third is to dispatch the animal if I have to. So far I haven't had to. I said that to say this I have not had a malfunction in the Marlin since I bought it in the '70's, It is cleaned when I get back to camp or home if only a weekend hunt and lightly oiled then stored in my safe until the next hunt or for not more than a month before taken out and a patch run through it and it is wiped down. I believe in the addage "Take care of your guns and they'll take care of you." Same goes for any "tool."

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[SFT]

I know that to be the case sometimes with either the .44 and .357 calibers, but I've never observed that with the .45's.  What I have seen and experienced is using .44 specials or .38's, a "crud" ring builds up in the chamber, causing difficult feeding if switching to magnum length cases or specials with a slightly longer OAL.  A quick fix, which is a good cleaning, but I'm guilty of neglecting to do this often enough only to have a problem.  The "Marlin" jam is also a quick fix, although not for at the range, if you do just a little polishing of the snail shaped cam on the lever.  This is also a case for ounce of prevention, better than pound of a cure, as if you don't do this before the carrier has a line etched in it you will need extensive gunsmithing later on, probably to included replacing the carrier completely.

Marlins also need to have the screws tightened occaisionally, some more than others, and loose screws are also a source of feeding problems which go away immediately after tightening.

I think every rifle that's going to be subjected to the number of rounds fired through it for CAS is going to need some work on it right out of the box, some models more or less than others.  The Marlin needs to have the lever cam that leaves the factory with a sharp edge polished slightly to a more rounded profile; too much and you've done more harm than good.  If you've already got a visible line (notch) on the carrier then it will need to be replaced eventually.  That's a fact and it just a flaw in the design, but an easy and cheap fix if done when the rifle is new.  I'm not saying the "Marlin jam" occurs within a certain amount of time, 6, 10 or even 50 matches down the road, and some never see it until 10 years or more, but it happens, and it can be prevented without having a full blown action job.

The one thing I'd recommend to all Marlin shooters is to replace the ejector with a one piece unit.  I've never seen the factory two piece break, but I'm told it will and to not take a chance.  I've got a pre-cross bolt safety .44 mag that I picked up at a pawn shop cheap knowing it had the Marlin jam and would need major work.  It now has one piece firing pin and "Bear-proof" 1 piece ejector, metal magazine plug, Marlin "Magic Spring", plus most of the internals including the lever had to be replaced, not a project I'd recommend for a newbie or anyone else with a bit a sanity left, but more to the point, it's as slick and reliable as my 3 year old 1894 CBC .45.  Both my 1894's see double duty on the range as well as in the field.  Both digest full power hunting loads without problems and go right back to a CAS match the next weekend.  I can't see that happening with any other SASS legal levergun with the exception of a '92 clone which need extensive smithing out of the box.
Here's a good link for the Marlin: http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Marlin94Fix.html

[SFT]

Your 30-30 is probably the 336 model with the round bolt?  The 1894's square bolt functions a little different, as the 336 models don't experience this problem.  Good advice for taking care of your tools, much the same as my late grandfather's advice, whose woodworking tools are still in good condition even after last using them 21 years ago, and many of them were given to him already used, some are 90 years old.
One thing I don't care for is Marlin's "Mar-shield" finish, which just doesn't do any justice to the wood stocks.  The walnut on the yellowboys and '73's are just so much nicer.  My .44 pawn shop project gun had yellowing varnish over the factory finish and looked awful, but stripping and refinishing revealed some fairly nice walnut underneath.  Even the birch stocked 336 models benefit from refinishing in my opinion.

The only Marlin I own is in 30-30 Winchestercaliber, I use it only for hunting, so it is not fired rapidly or a whole lot I know that I've never emptied the magazine while hunting, in fact I never fully load it I put only three bullets in the rifle when I hunt. The second shot is if I somehow miss or the animal moves as I squeeze the trigger, the third is to dispatch the animal if I have to. So far I haven't had to. I said that to say this I have not had a malfunction in the Marlin since I bought it in the '70's, It is cleaned when I get back to camp or home if only a weekend hunt and lightly oiled then stored in my safe until the next hunt or for not more than a month before taken out and a patch run through it and it is wiped down. I believe in the addage "Take care of your guns and they'll take care of you." Same goes for any "tool."

[SFT]

The Henry Big Boy is a fine rifle, and SASS approved.  It's good looking but a little heavier than I prefer, although the "brass-light" frame makes for a very smooth action, plus the wood is quite nice.  It's more expensive than the Marlin 1894, and it doesn't have a loading gate, rather a tube plug like the Golden Boy .22, but a good shooter.  I have to disagree that it's comparable in accuracy as the Winchester 94; it's much better than that.  The 94 Winchester when chambered for shorter pistol rounds is the least reliable, worst shooting CAS rifle I've ever owned, and even though that's my personal experience and opinion I believe it's one a share with more than  few others.

what are your opinions on the henry bigboy in .45 cal as a CAS gun?  it was SASS approved not to long ago, was'nt it?  im still in the market for my CAS rifle and have been goin nuts lookin.  boy this is fun! 

[SFT]

Here's the link to the CAS City getting started advice on rifles:
http://www.cascity.com/getstarted5.htm

what are your opinions on the henry bigboy in .45 cal as a CAS gun?  it was SASS approved not to long ago, was'nt it?  im still in the market for my CAS rifle and have been goin nuts lookin.  boy this is fun! 

[Cyrille]

The Henry Big Boy is a fine rifle, and SASS approved. --- I have to disagree that it's comparable in accuracy as the Winchester 94; it's much better than that.  The 94 Winchester when chambered for shorter pistol rounds is the least reliable, worst shooting CAS rifle I've ever owned, and even though that's my personal experience and opinion---

Question: Are you refering to a made in the U.S.A. Winchester'94 or a foreign 'clone?'

[buck]

  Thanks for the feedback, Cyrille and SFT...i appreciate it     I thought it was a purdy rifle myself...the henry BB.   My gun store has layaway!  hehe 

[Cyrille]

That;s how I got mine! hehee

[SFT]

The US made 94 chambered for pistol cartridges.  Nothing against Winchesters shooting rifle length cartridges, but as far as a CAS main match rifle they just don't work and accuracy was awful.  Again, my personal experience and observation.

Question: Are you refering to a made in the U.S.A. Winchester'94 or a foreign 'clone?'

Quote- "The 1894 Winchester generally should be avoided. The action was designed for longer cartridges than pistol caliber, and I've yet to see a reliable example. (E-mails aren't necessary if you have one. There's probably a reliable Jaguar out there somewhere, too.) If you have one and are financially stretched, obviously you'll need to use it and learn how to defeat its idiosyncrasies and live within its limitations. I'm told that it is so complex inside that only gunsmiths should detail strip it. The '94 Marlin and '73 Winchester are not that complicated. The Marlin is the simplest of the two."

[SFT]

Good deal! Did you get to pick your rifle out of the ones they had?  Sometimes you find one with a little better figure in the wood if you feel like going over each one they've got in inventory.  Post a pic of your new toy if you get a chance too.
 

  Thanks for the feedback, Cyrille and SFT...i appreciate it     I thought it was a purdy rifle myself...the henry BB.   My gun store has layaway!  hehe 

[Cyrille]

My son used our Winchester '94 in .45 Colt, hit all the targets, @ a Cas shoot with my reloads, I used our Henry BB in  45 Colt and hit all the targets with the same batch of reloads. I then swiched the BB for the '94 a little later when the pressure was off and hit all the targets. Now I will admit that we were a bit on the slow side, no where near the top but a little below the middle. It worked for us!

[SFT]

If it works for you then more power to you.  They've got better looking wood on them than the Marlins.

[Cyrille]

Good deal! Did you get to pick your rifle out of the ones they had?  Sometimes you find one with a little better figure in the wood if you feel like going over each one they've got in inventory.  Post a pic of your new toy if you get a chance too.
 

Nope; had to order mine from the Henry Co. But I like it just the same, as if I had seen it before ordering. The stock is a bit lighter [in color] than the stock on my Winchester '94 and the lines in the wood remind me of ripples left in sand by a retreating tide very nice!
 and the action--- smooth as butter! As far as posting a picture, no can do don't have the know-how.

[Abilene]

I don't think any other companies have made a "clone" of the Winchester '94, as they have with the earlier models.

When I first started CAS, and didn't know any better, I picked up a '94 Trapper in 45LC at a gunshow.  You know, just liked that it was a "real" Winchester (sort of).  Found out later about the 9-round limit being a problem, and that the feeding of pistol caliber cartridges was an inherent design weakness (mine would chuck a live round out along with the empty once or twice every match).  However, it WAS quite accurate.

I think I've seen more Marlins jam at matches than other rifles.  The toggle link rifles will certainly jam if the ammo is the wrong length (and uncrimped or split brass rounds that get compressed shorter in the magazine will certainly do it).  Besides the current '66 loading gate weakness, I think the toggle links can be very reliable and are very easy to "smooth up".  I have three '73 carbines and one '66 short rifle.  None have had action jobs, but all feel very smooth due to just a little tweaking of the spring tensions by adjusting screws and installing spacer washers.  I call it a "Poor man's action job" and have described the simple process here: http://users3.ev1.net/~dave42/shoot/PoorMan.htm

I also like the toggle link rifles in regards to the historical significance, and that they are appropriate for the time period most of us are portraying (not that that is a CAS requirement).  That is one reason that I would never get a Henry Big Boy, regardless of how nice it might shoot.  But I won't put down anyone who has one.