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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  SCORRS (Moderator: Bull Schmitt)  |  Topic: .36 cal Remmy 1858's 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: .36 cal Remmy 1858's  (Read 6631 times)
Comanche Kid
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Tumbleweed


« on: January 26, 2006, 03:20:43 am »


Anyone have one for sale or trade. Looking for a few 5 1/2 barrel ones or another Euroarms long barrel. I have been shooting my 7 1/2" barrel one and am really hooked on how well she shoots. Pretty interesting for an old soldier who grew up on a 1911.
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hellgate
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2006, 10:25:38 am »

Kid,
I have one but not for sale (yet). There are some of the older models made quite a few years ago imported by Lyman and others that were made on a smaller frame (Navy models). The more recently made 36 cal Remingtons are merely the 44 cal frames with shortened barrels and the same cylinder with 36 cal chambers. They are heavy guns, some folks really like them, I like the less massive older ones which are harder to find.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

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Comanche Kid
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Tumbleweed


« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2006, 11:58:16 am »

Hellgate,
             I have one of the newer heavier models. It seems to handle real well and shoot straight. I've been looking for some of the older ones at gunshows and pawnshops. They are hard to find as most folks bought them, shot them a few times and put them away. Trying to see if anyone might remember they have one set aside and not shoot it want to sell. Thanks for the reply.
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Oldelm
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2006, 10:52:38 pm »

Quote
Looking for a few 5 1/2 barrel ones or another Euroarms long barrel. I have been shooting my 7 1/2" barrel one and am really hooked on how well she shoots.

Quote
I have one of the newer heavier models. It seems to handle real well and shoot straight.

Commanche Kid,........I guess you're saying that the current Euroarms '58 Rem 36 cal is heavier than the older ones. What year was your Euroarms Remington made? You can tell by the coded 2 letter proof mark within a box, generally on the right side above trigger guard.  I'm curious, because this is something I've been wondering about myself, not only with the .36 cal but the .44 as well.  Euroarms took over Armi San Paolo around 2002, but from what  I understand, at least concerning the .44Rem, they kept the same smaller framed grip that the Armi San Paolos were noted for, and had been making for some time.  I spoke with someone at Euroarms recently about the size of the frames, and according to him , with regards the .44 Rem at least,.....the frames are still the way Armi San Paolo used to make them,.....smaller framed like the original Remingtons.

Maybe it's different with the .36 cal Navys.  Here's a Euroarms 6.5" .36 cal Navy Rem,...but don't know what year....

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=40507249

Just curious what other folks think,.....does that look like the smaller frame that you speak of?
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Comanche Kid
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Tumbleweed


« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2006, 11:32:34 pm »

Oldelm,
            Looking over my piece for the date, all I can see are the proffs and what looks like xx8 on the right side over the trigger. Other markings are .36 cal. New Army Model. Top flat states..EuroArms.Brescia      Made In Italy. Barrel (Incl Cylinder) is 7.5 inches. I looked at two of these that looked almost the same, but decided on this one as the grip seemed to be bigger and felt more balanced in my hand. It was as new(never fired) and I paid $120 for it. Going to a gun show saturday to try and find it a partner. Might look for an 1851 navy to have a set of .36 Cal BPR's. Not worried about having a matched set, just matched calibers. Makes for easier paper cartridge production.
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Oldelm
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2006, 12:01:46 am »

Commanche,.....
Your .36 cal New Army Model was made in 1972,.....an older one. Interesting, eh?

Here's the Beretta website which has chart to the proof  marks for each year. This is for any Italian gun.

http://www.berettaweb.com/DL1.htm

I would say Euroarms put it's name on the top of the ASP's barrel after 2002, when the company name changed to Euroarms. That's just my guess based on what info I've been able to gather so far, but am stumped as to why the grip was bigger on yours if it was made in 1972. I assume the proof marks are stamped after the gun is completely assembled, but perhaps I'm mistaken. You got it for a good price, though, at $120. Wink
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Comanche Kid
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Tumbleweed


« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2006, 12:08:50 am »

Oldelm,
            Interesting info. 1972? The Pistol is flawless. Kinda strange if Euroarms came into being in 2002. Did this one hang around the warehouse for 30+ years, or were they using old stock frames to make new Pistols. Appreciate any info you can give me.
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Oldelm
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2006, 11:05:16 am »

Comanche,....
I think they just may have been using old stock to make new pistols. These things can sit around for many years without being used , and still be perfectly good if they had good protective  lubes on them. Armi San Paolo made some really nice, and authentically scaled '58 Rem replicas, that were a step above the Armi San Marcos. If you get a chance, slug your bore. I'd be curious what your groove diameter is. ASPs are known for having nice tight bores.  I sent you an e-mail with more info,.....
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Comanche Kid
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Tumbleweed


« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2006, 11:27:12 am »

Oldelm,
             Bore slugs out at a very tight .375. with 22 grains 3F, a wonder wad, and .375 roundball she is a very tight shooter.
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Oldelm
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2006, 02:33:57 pm »

Comanche,...That's nice,...and doesn't surprise me,.....Hang on to her,...she's a keeper. Cool
If ya ever get a chance, I'd love to see a good clear pic of your .36 cal Remington. I'm trying to formulate, if possible, the visual differences in frame size between the various makes of these Remington replicas.

 As for the .44 cal Rems,...the few  '58 Rems of ASP that I've so far been able to get specs on (made in the 1970s) had .448 - .449 groove dia.,..and chambers at .450.  Couldn't ask for a better combination. Wink
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Comanche Kid
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Tumbleweed


« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2006, 02:52:32 pm »

Oldelm,
            Nice to know I picked a good Remmy. As soon as my film/disc get back from developing, I will get pics posted. Maybe by then my staghorns will be in and I can get some pics with the whole package put together. Ordered a nice holster off of this board from the major. Waiting for that to come in also. Be searching a local gun show this weekend for another Remmy. Where abouts in Vermont are You at? I grew up in Lanesborough, MA about 17 miles from Bennington. Nice state.
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hellgate
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2006, 03:38:43 pm »

Be sure to mike the chambers and the barrel. A friend's older small frame Lyman Remington Navy has large chambers and the .375 balls roll out (it also had very small nipples). I needed to use .380 dia balls for that one and the .375 for my Colt '61 Navy of the same rea.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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Tumbleweed


« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2006, 03:44:11 pm »

hellgate,
             Remmy's been miked and slugged. Found the best fir all around was the .375 round ball. Fits like a glove in the chambers and soots as straight as an arrow out of the muzzle. Being an old BPCR shooter, I always check measurements. Never know when they are gonna sneak a diff. bore diameter in on ya. Having a ball being back in the BP revolver game. Thanks for the advice.
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hellgate
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2006, 03:59:19 pm »

Incidentally, you might want to try the LEE double cavity (DC) conical mold. It throws a 130gr conical ball with a bit more whollop for knockdowns. The Remingtons hold more powder and take the higher loads just fine. I found that I could almost fill the chambers with Pyro P and ram a ball or conical deep enough to clear the mouth. They were stout loads but made nice dings on the steel and are plenty accurate. LEE also makes a DC .380 ball mold.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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Tumbleweed


« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2006, 04:20:10 pm »

Never Tried a conical ball. Always round ones. Are They easier to make cartridges with? Roundies are hard to get set up in the paper sometimes. How do the conicals load into the cylinder? are they hard to get in straight?
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Oldelm
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« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2006, 09:50:50 pm »

Quote
Where abouts in Vermont are You at? I grew up in Lanesborough, MA about 17 miles from Bennington. Nice state.

Comanche.....I live in southern Vt., not too far from Brattleboro.  Yes, it's nice here,.....wish the winters weren't so long, though.

Quote
Maybe by then my staghorns will be in and I can get some pics with the whole package put together

Your Remmy should look real nice with staghorns. Good luck searchin the gun show for a mate to yer Rem. Let us know what you find.
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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2006, 10:02:36 pm »

Hellgate mentioned a small frame .36 Rem.  Are they really available?  What about a .36 Belt Pistol with the smaller frame?
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« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2006, 10:24:24 pm »

Comanche Kid,
The LEE conical is well designed. The driving bands are rebated so the rear most band is of a smaller diameter than the middle band and the widest part is probably .380 (.375-.380). There are only two grease grooves. The bottom band is probably .360. the next up is probably .370 and the widest probably .380. I'm guessing on the dimensions but the lower driving band enters the chamber and then second one is fairly snug but the bullet stays pretty self centered and upright for good allignment in ramming. I sometimes use a lube wad under the conical and grease on top.

I don't know if any of the small frame .36 Navy Remingtons are still made. The most likely one would be the Euroarms made gun. I believe the Pietta is merely the 44 cal gun with a shorter barrel and smaller bores in the barrel & cylinder. Check the weight out and I'd bet it is the same weight as the 44 with the longer barrel. My 2005 Dixie catalog shows both the 36 Navy and the Army 44 Remingtons both weighing 2 3/4 lbs (Piettas). The Euroarms 44 Remmie weighs in at 2 1/2 lbs.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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Tumbleweed


« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2006, 10:36:21 pm »

Thanks for the info on the conicals. May have to try the out to see if I can tighten up my goups any more.
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2006, 07:48:00 pm »

Unless you are able to find an Olde A.S.P. made .36 Remington N.M.N. or the exception some times shipped by Euroarms, an Authentically scaled Repro .36 Remington N.M.N. is Not currently being mass produced.
The current manufacturers are boring .44 N.M.A.'s in .36 & just shortening the Bbl.'s, which makes the current .36 N.M.N's Bleedin' Heavy for what they are supposed to be.
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2006, 09:40:40 pm »

The letters in the proofmark box on my Pietta .36 Remington are double-struck and not very deep. I think it's BP (2001). Does that make it a .44 frame? If so, rats. I really want a small-frame. Measurements are:

Frame window 2+1/32" recoil shield to barrel x 1+11/16" top to bottom
Cylinder 2" long x 1+9/16" diameter
Barrel 4+15/16" frame to muzzle
Barrel thread length 1+5/8"
Total barrel length 6+9/16"

Merçi!
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« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2006, 12:20:15 am »

The letters in the proofmark box on my Pietta .36 Remington are double-struck and not very deep. I think it's BP (2001). Does that make it a .44 frame? If so, rats. I really want a small-frame. Measurements are:

Frame window 2+1/32" recoil shield to barrel x 1+11/16" top to bottom
Cylinder 2" long x 1+9/16" diameter
Barrel 4+15/16" frame to muzzle
Barrel thread length 1+5/8"
Total barrel length 6+9/16"

Merçi!

Are those the dimensions of the pistol you have or the pistol you want?  If they are what you have then you appear to have what is currently sold as the small frame '58  Navy.  These are smaller than the Uberti 36 cal (which is the same frame as the 44 cal) .

I have a new Pietta Navy (manufactured in 2005) and an older Navy Arms (manufacturedby Uberti in 1971).  The older pistol is smaller.  Not a lot smaller but noticable for sure.  The bores are different as well.  The Navy Arms bore is about .378 whereas the Pietta bore is about .367.  So I use .380 balls in the Navy Arms and .375 balls in the Pietta.  One consolation at least is that I get to use the same cap (#10 Remington) as I installed Treso nipples in both (however, I had to order two different nipple threads).
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« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2006, 09:11:27 am »

I have found that Uberti NMA'S are smaller than Pietta NMA's anyway, not much but like you say noticable. Armi San Paolo is smaller yet, more like the Original Remington. Some say the ASP?Euroarms Navies are a smaller frame than the their NMA's if so, then they be more correct in size to the originals. Euroarms did not change out their machinery when they moved from San Paolo to where they are now and still produce the same pistols(at least the "58 Rem) that they did as ASP.
I have an ASP/Euroarms NMA enroute and it should be here anytime. Just found out the ASP/Euroarms '58 Remmy is due here on Friday! may be able to shoot it at the CAS match Sunday.
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2006, 07:28:39 pm »

I've got a newer Cimmaron[Uberti]and while it feels kinda big 'n' clumsy[it's full sise]it shoots SWEET.
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