So...Will NCOWS Ban the Marlin 98 Too?

[Major Matt Lewis]

Haven't been over the the SASS Wire for a while.  I wanted to see if the Mods Committee had made it's recommendation yet.  They have and I am generally happy with what they said.  I know, call me a gamer...Now that said, the one thing that did shock me was the banning of the Marlin 98, the Spencer Shotgun and some other period shotgun. 

Now, I do have a Marlin 98 that has been rebuilt and is ready to rock and roll, but is NCOWS Congress considering banning the Marlin 98 too?

[Quick Fire]

Major Matt, as far as I know it's never been brought up

[Will Ketchum]

Matt, since it was made during our era I can't see why it would be banned.  SASS bans a lot of guns that NCOWS approves such as double action revolvers with swing out cylinders or double action revolvers as main match guns.  We also allow ejectors on shotguns since they were available prior to 1899.

Will Ketchum

[Advertising]

[Books OToole]

Very few of us are exclusively NCOWS members.  I am, and I could care less what SASS does.  If SASS were to become a whole lot more like NCOWS, I might go to one of their shoots. 

In fact some people who post here are formost SASS shooters who for one reason or another are also NCOWS members.  For some who are primary SASS shooters, all Cowboy Action Shooting information must go through the SASS filter.

I run all such imformation through an NCOWS filter.  After all NCOWS is the best CAS organization.

Books

[James Hunt]

You tell 'em Books! Personally I've never liked the judge, heck I've never met the man and I just don't like him. Reminds me of a high school principal I had who's office I adorned on more than one occasion. Don't like a financial manager whose nickname is Chisler either.

Dog gone it Books you have me going, I may just up and not pay my SASS dues. I've gone to two SASS matches in my life, the first they looked at my duds and I looked at their duds and it was clear we were on a different page in history and the second was on a warm day after a mounted shoot where we stopped to see the vendors - I looked and SMELLED the part - folks were shepharding their women and children out of our way as if the Daltons had come to town, one of the vendors looked me up and down and with a Texas drawl quipped "you look like home" which I took as a compliment. Outside of a self promoting paper printed on bad newsprint I haven't got much from that outfit, course I haven't invested in the Founders Ranch yet either. Do you suppose the Chisler had anything to do with setting that baby up?

You're right, NCOWS is the best CAS environment going.

[Irish Dave]

Matt: I wouldn't see why NCOWS would act against the Marlin. I would think the issue of safety is one that I would consider before I shot one, but I believe that is best left to the guy holding the shotgun.

I agree with many posting here that SASS needs to do what it thinks is best and NCOWS needs to do what IT thinks is best. I think there are times when we are wise (especially in learning from their errors) to pay some attention to them. But these are separate organizations -- even if some within our ranks want to see them as the same.

[Grizzle Bear]

I think we should just make it an NCOWS rule that we outlaw anything Major Matt buys!   

Grizzle Bear

[Books OToole]

Griz;

I don't think I can support that postition.  I want a Taurus Thunderbolt.

Books

[Major Matt Lewis]

Well Griz,

If that's the case, there goes your Spencer, yup same caliber

To outwardly ignore SASS, is to not mention the 800 pound gorrilla in the room.  It they are banning it for safety reasons, than it MAY be prudent to look at that...Notice I said MAY. 

Obviously, we are a different ogranization with a different charter and purpose here, but as Mike pointed out, there are Many cross organizational shooters here. 

I tell you what, with some practice and some slicking up, that Taurus Thunderbolt could be greased lightning.....Great point of aim, point of impact, I just haven't gotten used to the sights yet....

[Will Ketchum]

James, I like Judge Roy Bean.  I have met him several times.  He's a fellow Marine and enjoys a good cigar.  He is or at least was a NCOWS member.  I told him once that he and the Wild Bunch should join to show their support.  I know he did.  I didn't see his name on the current members list but he may have renewed later..  His and Tex's ideas of what CAS should be are not much different than mine.  They are both dismayed about the direction the sport has gone.  They would like to get it back to what it was 10 years ago when it was all about having fun.

Will Ketchum

[Major Matt Lewis]

Chiz runs SASS, not the Judge....

[Cuts Crooked]

Pards, SASS is not saying why they are banning the Marlin. A lot of folks have made the assumption that it's over safety/liability, but the truth is...no one knows but the Wild Bunch. (Note: the Marlin ban was ordered to be a part of the new "covenant" by the WB, it is not something thier TGs came up with) However the following is directly from the SASS rule book:

EQUIPMENT and SHOOTING
CATEGORIES
Originals and reproductions of firearms
manufactured during the early to late 1800's,
including Colts, Winchesters, Remingtons,
Smith & Wessons, Marlins, Sharps, and Henrys,
are allowed in SASS competitions, so long as
they are in safe shooting condition.

and it would seem that that would CYA for SASS on any safety issue supposed to be related to the Marlin. Actually, it puts the onus for the safe condition of guns on the SHOOTER, which is much wiser for an organization than undertaking to decide what guns are and are not safe...at least insofar as liability is concerned.

Interestingly I've seen some serious nastiness going on over on thier wire, with comments to some of the complainers that they should go play with NCOWS if they don't like it! (nice fer NCOWS   ) But it makes me very proud of my association with NCOWS because I did not see that sort of thing happening, the other way, when NCOWS decided to simply ban short strokes! Nor have seen threats to leave NCOWS over the SS ban!  

[Silver Creek Slim]

Everyone is responsible for the safety of their weapons, not the organization that is running the event. 

Slim

[Will Ketchum]

Chiz runs SASS, not the Judge....

Matt, that may be true regarding day to day operations but be assured that the other Wild Bunch members don't hesitate to rein him in and have.  There is a constant powder struggle going on within the WB. 

Will Ketchum

[Lou Graham]

Major Matt, I truly do not believe it is a "safety" issue.  The Marlin shotguns have been used in SASS for almost 25 years without incident.

It's a liability or litigation issue.

ANY old gun can be unsafe if not properly checked out by someone that knows what they are doing.  Heck, even a new gun can be unsafe.  Like the AWA parts that went flying past my nose.........

Sit tight if you can.  You might just see an uptick in membership as a result of some of the hasty action over in SASS-land.  As it gets clearer to more people that the "vote" is maningless as whatever the "members" want and the TG's vote for can be over-ruled by the Wild Bunch, the idea of a bottom-up run cowboy organization will have a lot of folks looking this way.

[US Scout]

Lou-

You hit the nail on the head regarding how SASS is "ruled."  For the most part, it appears to be whatever the TG's want, as long as the WB likes it.  What the general membership wants is only taken into consideration if they happen to have a TG who takes times to listen to more than just his close friends.

As for the Judge and Tex - I've met 'em both on several occasions and had the pleasure of shooting with both.  I like 'em.  I know they are disappointed with the direction SASS has gone the last few years and are desparate to get it back on the original track.  I'll back their play and wish 'em luck besides, but I doubt they'll be very successful.  They turned a blind eye to what was going on for too long.

But, as you astutely pointed out, their loss may be NCOWS gain. 

[Delmonico]

ANY old gun can be unsafe if not properly checked out by someone that knows what they are doing.

Wise words Lou.

[law dawg]

All right I haven't joined any organization as of yet and I need someone to direct me to where I can find out what I'm supposed to do and have for each organization.  The SASS gets more press so I'll put my .02 in the pot on this issue.  If the judge wants to get it back to its roots their going to have pull the reins in on the gamers short stroked slicked up rifles, and ultra lite recoiling .38 and .32 loads.  Or they can just incorporate a points system for major-minor power, even though that would take alot of the fun out of it.

[Major Matt Lewis]

Lou,

I honestly agree with you...but what can we do, besides shoot NCOWS where you can use a larger variety of guns...Would be nice to have some dissenfranchised shooters up in New England to start an NCOWS club....

I have never read any of Doc Black's posts, but he seemed quite impassioned when he posted on the SASS Wire...

Now if NCOWS leadership only attempt to market that NCOWS offers shooters a larger variety of shooting irons....

[Lou Graham]

Yup, this one got him.
He hardly ever posts.
I can make do with a Model 12 for WB but he's going to lose his main match gun.  It really stinks to have to pay almost $1,000 for a gun you don't even want.  I'm also worried it won't stop there.  Some of the same folks that are afraid of liability for Marlins may come after the Damascus shotguns next.  They'll be prying Francis out of my cold dead hands.