Favorite Caliber

[Ozark Tracker]

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I know the Buffalos were killed with whatever has been available through the ages, but what was the buffalo's hunters most used caliber?

[Delmonico]

It's most likely the 50-70.

[Hemlock Mike]

There was at least 20 BIG calibers available back then for the hunts.  Today, for what we do, the 45-70 is the best first choice for a new shooter.  Try a 45-120 and you will "feel" why you start with the ol' 70 

Mike

[Hell-Er High Water]

I would guess that the large capacity 45 and 50 calibers holding 70 grains of powder or more were the most popular of the day.

For my long range BP cartridge shooting I shoot mostly the 45-70 but I do shoot some 40-70 Sharps Straight and some 50-70 Gov't.  All three can get the job done but at this time I am just more comfortable with the 45-70, after all I have been shooting this caliber since the mid 1960's.

It will be interesting to see what others shoot and what loads they use.  I'm sure that we all can learn from each other.  I hope that this turns out to be as interesting a forum as some of the others.

HHW

[Forty Rod]

It's been said that after the Army started supplying buffalo runners with cartridges to kill the big shaggies as a way to fight Indians, that the .45-70 was used almost exclusively. 

The only holdouts were the few professionals who were still hunting for meat and hides and not just killing buff to hurt the Indians.  They stuck to their favorite guns and cartridges whatever they may have been.

Many of those pros went on to kill bear and wolves for the ranchers on a bounty per kill basis, and some hunted Indians for the Army, as well.

[J.D.Cayhill]

From what I have read the two most used calibers on big shaggies were 45-70 and 44-77. The 44-77 was the big favorite until the 45-70 became more available.

I currently load for 43 Spanish, 40-65, 45-70 and 45-90. Which one is my favorite? It's the one I happen to be shooting at the time.

[Delmonico]

I would say the 44-77 was second, there are reasons for my answer.  the greastest number of buffalo killed for hides only were killed in southwestern Nebraska, western Kansas and northern Texas from the start of the "Great Hunt" in the spring of 1872 when the market for raw hides opened up to about 1877 when most of the Southern Herd was destroyed.  The two most popular callibers were 50-70 and 44-77 with the 45-90 coming in third.  The 45's did not come into the line till 1876 according to Frank Barnes.

So most of the southern herd was gone by then.  The 44-77 was considered light by some and most used a 50 cal if they could get their hands one one.  Also the ammo given to the hunters by the army was of the 50-70 type, the 45-70 coming in in 1873 and most was needed to build up stock, the 50-70 was phased out and was less useful to the army.  Also loose powder and stocks of Minne balls were also given away, left over from the Springfield muzzle-loaders.  There is no offical records of the ammo give away, only accounts by hunters of being offered this, perhaps another Goverment Conspiracy for those who like such stuff.

Also many hunters early in the careers used the 50-70 Trapdoor, called a needle gun by many hunters.  The older models such as the conversions from 1863 Springfiels were sold cheap on the frontier as the newer models came out.

These are the reasons I say the 50-70 killed the most buffalo for hides.  One could also use the free 50-70 ammo in a 50-90 if desired.

As for a begaining BPRC a 45-70 is the best choice, brass is cheap, dies are cheap, recoil is tolerable for most who have no shoulder problems and it will do any thing that is needed.

[Silver Creek Slim]

I would agree with Del. This meshes with the limited research I have done. If I remember correctly, Billy Dixon used a .44-77 as his main rifle. But, he used a .50 at Adobe Walls 'cuz he lost his in a river a day or so before the fight began.

Slim

[gw]

I put about 12 books on the buffalo era on my Christmas "wish list', so, if 'ol Santa delivers, I'll have a lot of readin' to do and somewhere down the road be able to answer this question. As far as a favorite cartridge goes I don't really have one, though I am partial to loadin' the 45-2.6 case.

                                                                                                                GW

[Delmonico]

My research of 30 some years on this says, Billy dixon lost his 50-90 in the river a few days before and had to buy a 44-77 because thats all that was on hand at The Walls.  A lesser shot,, Hannrahan, (I'd have to dig for his first name) that ran the resteraunt at the Walls traded rifles with him because Billy was such a better long range shot.

Billy Dixon always sait his 1591 yard shot was just luck and it was in part, but he made another shot at around 850 yards or so the same day, so I would add a bit of skill to the luck.

[Silver Creek Slim]

I stand err..... sit corrected. 

Slim

[Derby Younger]

I put about 12 books on the buffalo era on my Christmas "wish list', so, if 'ol Santa delivers, I'll have a lot of readin' to do and somewhere down the road be able to answer this question. As far as a favorite cartridge goes I don't really have one, though I am partial to loadin' the 45-2.6 case.

                                                                                                                GW

GW:

If you don't have BUFFALO GUNS & BARBED WIRE in the 12. Recommend that you get a copy.

Derby

[Oregon Bill]

Del's not far off the mark. I think .44-77 was king until about 1874, as the cartridge was chambered first by Remington as early as 1868 some sources say, and in the Model 1869 Sharps as well as the 74. The .50-70 would have been the working man's buff gun, thanks to Uncle Sam quickly phasing out or distributing the early trapdoors. Don't forget that a youngster named Cody earned his nickname supplying bison meat to the Kansas and Pacific RR workers with his surplus .50-70 Model 1868 trapdoor, "Lucretia Borgia."

[gw]

Derby---That was the second book on my " wish list". Thanks for the tip.

                                                                              GW

[Lars]

Well, back in Sweden our version of the 50-70 US Govt, the 12,7X44R, was the Swedish military cartridge for some decades and also became very popular cartridge for shooting mooses, deers, etc. When we came over in the 1880s we brought a Husqvarna double with one barrel for 12,7X44R and one for 16X65 because we knew we could get cheap military surplus ammo for the rifle barrel.

Worked real well. Only needed to take one gun out hunting. Could shoot some pheasants or rabbits with the shotgun if we did not find any elks or deers or sheeps. Those nice 13 mm holes in critters' lungs sure are deadly. No buffers left to shoot.

Lars

[Delmonico]

One must also remember the Govt. had several thousand Sharps percussion carbines converted to 50-70, later many were given to Texas to issue the Rangers.

[Delmonico]

Killing power between a 50 and 45 caliber would in reality be not much differeance except in ones mind.  The 50 most often used a 450-475 gr. bullet and the 45's most often a 500 gr.  the greater sectional denisty gave better penatration.  also the 45's had a somewhat flatter trajectory because of the greater sectional density and often a higher velocity.  This made hits at longer range easier.

When one goes into the study of the hunting in Montana in the 1878 to 1883 era one finds the even flater shoooting 45-70 and 45-90's held favor with many of the hunters.  Bullet placement is the most important round with any of these, a bad hit is a bad hit, there is no magic in any of them.

Also the bullet shape of the mostly roundnose 45's was better for the mythalogical "killing power" than most of the 50's with their more pointed bullets.  A good example is to examine a 50-70 Milatary round and then examine a 45 caliber Milatary round, factory ammo and most moulds of the time tended to follow the same style.

One must think that if the 50's were better "killer" than the 45's, Sharps most likely would have not dropped them from the catalog after 1876 and made them a special order only item.  0.05 inches is really not that great and does not make that much differance in the size of a hole in flesh at the velocities that these rounds carry.  Also the greater sectional density will break bones if needed much better.  Not that the Buff hunters really neaded to break bone.  A larger meplat on the nose of any of these would have improved the "killing power" on the favored lung shot of the hunter.  But the science of Terminal Ballistics was just in it's infancy.

[Tommy tornado]

   I think you all have it wrong.  In Dances with Wolves in the big buffalo hunting scene the Indians and good old Dances were using .44 Henry Rimfire.  Which means that a modern buffalo hunter could go out with a .22 hornet or so and kill a buff.

[Delmonico]

Not that far fetched, the Natives of Alaska and NW Canada favored the 22 Hornet for many years for much of their hunting.  They killed everyting including walrus and polar bear with them.  The weight of the rounds was the reason, if you have to haul in a years supply it is a great advantage.

The late Finn Agarrd (sp)  grew up in affrica and the Hornet was a favored round and when he was a youth he stalked upon a Cape Buffalo that was sleeping and shot it in the ear killing it instantly. His father beat his butt for being stupid, but it goes to point out shot placement is more important than power.  And yes, many American Bison were killed with Henry's.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

In his book "Buffalo Harvest" Frank Mayer (an original Buffalo Runner) states the army passed out lots of ammo free to the hunters in order to help delete the indians food supply.  I don't remember, but I think he said it was 50-70.  That couple with the number of surplused 1866 and 1868 Trapdoor 50-70s implies that the 50-70 was a major caliber.  I have an original 50-70 Rolling Block that shoots like a dream, though it has a tapered round barrel, rather than a heavy octagonal.

[Delmonico]

Yes the ammo given out as I understand it was 50-70 and started as the 45-70 started replacing it in 1873-74.  The army had plenty of 50-70 and it went to good use in a military sense.  This came about about the time of The Red River War.   It's simple, destroy the base of supply and the army has to give up.

[Silver Creek Slim]

From The Buffalo Harvest:
"Don't understand that any official action was taken in Washington and directives sent out to kill all the buff on the plains. Nothing like that happened. What did happen was that army officers in charge of plains operations encouraged the slaughter of buffalo in every possible way. Part of this encouragement was of a practical nature that we runners appreciated. It consisted of ammunition, free ammunition, all you could use, all you wanted, more than you needed. All you had to do to get it was apply at any frontier army post and say you were short of ammunition, and plenty would be given you. I received thousands of rounds this way. It was in .45-70 caliber, but we broke it up, remelted the lead, and some runners used government powder. I didn't. I was a stickler for the best, and used imported English powder which I will be describing to you in a little while. I had no trouble trading my government powder for things I wanted -- tobacco, bacon, flour, and other things."

Now, y'all may be right that it was the .50-70, but I am just quoting what Frank wrote. The book was published in 1958, four years after his death. He died at the age of 104. I don't know when he wrote it. Maybe some of the details had been "blurred" from the time he experienced it until he wrote it down.

You can read his book online at:
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/five/buffalo.htm

Slim

[Delmonico]

I glanced over it quickly, I think some faded memories are in it.  But it looks like good information, read it years ago.  He mentions a 45 Bottle neck Sharps.  Not made at all.  The army was so stingy with it's 45-70 ammo it don't makes sences that they gave it away.