.454 diam. bullets in .45 Colt question

[R.M. Conversion]

Hi,

I'm a longtime reloader for .45 Colt, and have used a bunch of bullets, both cast and jacketed in my 1873 Uberti, Open Top, New Vaquero and S&W Model 25-5 revolvers - as well as my Uberti Henry.  But all those were either .451 or .452 diameter, using both smokeless and black powder.

A friend gave me a bunch of cast .454 , 255g bullets.

Can I load 'em up and shoot them okay?  Will I get excessive pressures, or will they bulge my cases excessively?

Thanks.

[pony express]

I've loaded lots of.454 in .45 Cold for my Uberti '66, with no problems. I'd say, start with a starting load, load a few and work up a load from there.

[Bibbyman]

Back when I was a kid all we loaded in 45 Colt was 454 cast bullets.  The old Colt and Uberti Cattleman had plenty big throats and never thought of using smaller bullets.  Lately they have been making pistols with very tight throats.   I had a pair of Ruger Vaqueros that wouldn't even chamber anything over 451. 

I purposely cast and sized up some 454 bullets to help reduced blow-by in my Marlin 1894 Cowboy Limited.   It may have helped some.

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[pony express]

If they won't chamber, and it's a big enough bunch of bullets to be worthwhile, just get a Lee bullet sizer in .452 and run them through it.

[Coffinmaker]

R.M.,

IDEALLY, your choice of bullet diameter is driven by actual barrel groove diameter.  If you haven't slugged the bore, your just guessing.  Most of the current available .45 Colt will be either a nominal 451 or 452.  IDEALLY, again for a 451 barrel you would want bullets sized to 4515 or 452.  For a 452 barrel, you would want bullets sized to 4525 or 453.  However .... 454 will work just fine in either.  Unless your pushing maximum pressure 454 vis 452 won't give you dangerous pressures and if your shooting BP, no worries.

The problem is the cylinder throats.  Tight cylinder throats can give you excessive pressure and excessive felt recoil.  Just to cover Bibbyman's comments about his Rugers, Ruger is famous for undersize throats.  Not just tight, but UNDERSIZE.  Common to find throats in Rugers with a 451 bore to have cylinder throats at 448 or 449.  Not so Bueno.

So to pick an appropriate bullet diameter, first need to find your bore diameter and size accordingly.  However, you'll probably have no worries with 454 lead bullets.  You may notice some excess felt recoil though.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  Since March I've been wringing out a Uberti Frisco 45 Colt. It has very uniform cylinder throats at .452", I didn't bother slugging the barrel, Cimarron shows a nominal groove diameter of .450". Anyhow, I size all my .45 caliber cast bullets .452" using a Star lubrisizer. Accuracy is wonderful but after around 50 rounds I have to remove a little lead from the barrel, not much, just enough to be a little annoying. On a whim I sized a batch .454" and BAM, no more leading...I mean at all. Accuracy and velocity were virtually unchanged.  I size the bullets for my .357's Magnums at .358" and like the .45 Colt get a little leading, so I had a .360" die made for the Star and got identical results....no more leading. Finally my faithful .44 Specials, for which I have always sized bullets .430" were tested with bullets sized .432" with identical results as the other two calibers. I wish I weren't such a slow learner, but "Better late than never", as they say....

 CHT

[Roscoe]

  Since March I've been wringing out a Uberti Frisco 45 Colt. It has very uniform cylinder throats at .452", I didn't bother slugging the barrel, Cimarron shows a nominal groove diameter of .450". Anyhow, I size all my .45 caliber cast bullets .452" using a Star lubrisizer. Accuracy is wonderful but after around 50 rounds I have to remove a little lead from the barrel, not much, just enough to be a little annoying. On a whim I sized a batch .454" and BAM, no more leading...I mean at all. Accuracy and velocity were virtually unchanged.  I size the bullets for my .357's Magnums at .358" and like the .45 Colt get a little leading, so I had a .360" die made for the Star and got identical results....no more leading. Finally my faithful .44 Specials, for which I have always sized bullets .430" were tested with bullets sized .432" with identical results as the other two calibers. I wish I weren't such a slow learner, but "Better late than never", as they say....

 CHT

I wonder if you could have gotten similar results with softer bullets...something that would obturate rather than stuffing something oversized through the throats and bore.


I had a 45 convertible with 45 Colt throats at .454 and purchased .454 bullets for it. The bore was .451. After I sold the gun as too much of a barrel leading project and needing a special bullet I resized the remaining bullets to .452 for another gun, and they work okay.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

I wonder if you could have gotten similar results with softer bullets...something that would obturate rather than stuffing something oversized through the throats and bore.

 
   Not likely, and I think "stuffing" is a bit of a stretch. Many of my .44 Special and 45 Colt loads are hunting loads in which there is plenty of pressure to obturate my bullets that are largely cast of plain ol' wheelweights. Had pressures changed with the larger bullet, there would have been a noticeable change in velocity, which there wasn't.

  Several years ago I was working with cast bullets in my 1903A3 which has a .308" groove diameter. I sized bullets as large as .311" with wonderful accuracy and no adverse affects whatsoever.

  CHT

[R.M. Conversion]

Interesting stuff - thanks gents.  I think I'll give 'em a try in the Cattleman, with BP (even tho' this means replacing the lube... )

[Roscoe]

I won't be happy with a thread that concludes that size doesn't matter.