Author Topic: Possible extractor issues  (Read 5007 times)

Offline Hobble Creek Al

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Possible extractor issues
« on: June 03, 2018, 05:35:55 PM »
Somewhat new Uberti Comchaero in 45 Colt shot in 3 matches, the last a state blackpowder championship.  Several times it would not extract a fired case, costing me time.  After cleaning the rifle, yesterday in practice it FTExtract 2x, but these 2x a live round came up in the lifter, keeping the fired case from being extracted by hand.  Had to tear the rifle apart at the range the 1st time.  2nd time I simply placed it back in the rifle case and took it home at the end of the day where I tore it apart again.  While apart, cleaned it very well.  Noticed the extractor had a bit of up/down, .035", movement.  Not "springy" movement like i'd expect but free movement.  

1st question. Is the extractor movement allowing it to slip over the case rim?

2nd ?. Should I maybe polish the chamber.

3nd?  Anything I might do to the prevent this issue I'm not thinking of?  Maybe the OAL of 1.542" is too short compared to the 1.575" I get when loading HSM or Laser Cast 200 RNFP?

Light, sub minimum Trail Boss load under a Lee 200 gr RNFP.  Actual weight between 211-216 gr.  

Offline Hobble Creek Al

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 07:00:40 PM »
Addendum;

I just reassembled the cleaned rifle and with 10 dummy rounds that have proven to work (OAL), their is definitely an extractor issue.  The extractor is slipping of the rim or the round is "cocking" off to one side.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 09:09:48 PM »

Based on a lot of work on Toggle Link rifles (maybe .... 20 years??), you should not have .035 vertical movement in your extractor.  The extractor should be nice and snug against the top of the Breach Block.

The movement you have IS allowing the extractor to pop over the cartridge rim and leave the fired case in the chamber. 

You don't have a "chamber" problem.  Your .45 Colt came from the factory with an oversize chamber already.

Also you need to tote a small screwdriver around with you.  When you have the dreaded double feed error (also caused by operator error) you can pry the second cartridge out from under the extractor which allows to push the carrier block back down and then manually pull the cartridge out of the chamber with no rifle teardown.

Replace your Extractor.  Some fitting may be required.

Your over all length has nothing to do with it.  Your sub minimum Trail Boss load, other than being silly, has nothing to do with the problem.  In addition to the above, you probably have a Head Space issue.  Large bore Uberti normally have lousy head space.

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #3 on: Today at 11:15:13 AM »

Offline King Medallion

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 10:07:28 PM »
Send it back and get the proper caliber! 44-40  ;D
King Medallion

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 06:55:39 AM »
Send it back and get the proper caliber! 44-40  ;D

KM
Really pleased you said that - I been tryin real hard to not antagonise people - but this had me biting the end of my tongue - there was darn good reason those early winchesters were not chambered in 45 colt - always believed this was it.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2018, 10:37:51 AM »

Aw Cummon Greyhawk!!  Go ahead and antagonize folks.  It's often FUN.  And ..... your partially right.

The period .45 Colt cartridges were not suited to a rifle extractor.  The case rim was extremely small and not suitable for a rifle extractor.  A rifle extractor would rip right through a 45 Colt rim.  No one was manufacturing a 45 Colt cartridge that resembled more modern extruded cases.

Period 45 Colt cases would have sealed the chamber nicely.  VERY soft cases.  The soft cases also contributed to the extractor tearing through the case rim.  When the heavier, more modern cartridge was developed, it was also discovered the "modern" 45 Colt cartridge would not obturate to fill the chamber.  Even then, with Winchester rifles, Blow-By was a horrendous problem.  Hence, not rifles in 45 Colt.

There are a couple of techniques that mitigate and even eliminate the Blow-By bugaboo.  Today, with some careful loading, the 45 Colt can be Clean, Free Running and Sanitary.  Every bit as clean as 44-40.   ;D

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 10:50:24 AM »

ADDED:  I also saw your post over on "The Other Forum."  Please ignore any comments claiming the extractor is "soft" and will not hold tension for long.  The extractor is not soft and most of my extractors (7 rifles) have well exceeded 50,000 rounds.  Your extractor needs replaced.  Also investigate the extractor from "The Cowboys and Indian Store."  Some fitting, but an excellent extractor.

You should also have your Head Space checked.  Excessive head space can contribute to your problem.  Two things happen when firing.  One is the cartridge moves back against the Breach Block (bolt) to stay securely engaged with the extractor.  With a really light load, the cartridge may not move, especially as the chamber fouls.  a 45 chamber WILL foul.  Trail Boss is not a "clean" powder and will foul the chamber.

Your shooting a rifle.  A rifle is heavy and will soak up any recoil you generate.  If your trying to shoot a "real light" load in your handguns and the same load in your rifle, your shooting yourself in the foot.  You need to shoot a heavy enough load in the rifle to keep the case against the face of the Breach Block.  You need MORE powder.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2018, 05:39:48 PM »
ADDED:  I also saw your post over on "The Other Forum."  Please ignore any comments claiming the extractor is "soft" and will not hold tension for long.  The extractor is not soft and most of my extractors (7 rifles) have well exceeded 50,000 rounds.  Your extractor needs replaced.  Also investigate the extractor from "The Cowboys and Indian Store."  Some fitting, but an excellent extractor.

You should also have your Head Space checked.  Excessive head space can contribute to your problem.  Two things happen when firing.  One is the cartridge moves back against the Breach Block (bolt) to stay securely engaged with the extractor.  With a really light load, the cartridge may not move, especially as the chamber fouls.  a 45 chamber WILL foul.  Trail Boss is not a "clean" powder and will foul the chamber.

Your shooting a rifle.  A rifle is heavy and will soak up any recoil you generate.  If your trying to shoot a "real light" load in your handguns and the same load in your rifle, your shooting yourself in the foot.  You need to shoot a heavy enough load in the rifle to keep the case against the face of the Breach Block.  You need MORE powder.

CM  I dont think that was me (or maybe i forgot who I am?) I fly under a different flag on the other place - but seein as how I have your attention - we broke an extractor on an original 73 - best guess at the time I ordered a Uberti one - is it gonna fit ? a bit of fitting is no big deal and it it dont we got two ubertis and I know where another ten live so a spare in the system is not a dumb idea - thanks fer the heads up on cowbys store its in the memory bank for next time.
Biggest problem I see with these type extractors they get fouled up or rusted in their slot in the breech block and cant move how they sposed ta - then some will bend - or others break (seen a few bent on 92's)  I have yet to investigate why this old one broke but he admitted a real hard case and he leaned on the lever to cycle it - next shot the tip was gone.   

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 11:33:57 AM »


Naw Greyhawk.  Was talking at Hobbie Creek Al.  Sorry you miss-understood.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 07:37:37 PM »

Naw Greyhawk.  Was talking at Hobbie Creek Al.  Sorry you miss-understood.
yeah I misunderstoods a lot - grey hair does that - as it grows it sucks yr brain cells out the top o yr scone - leaves lil blank spaces in there where peoples names used to be n such - whars me glasses ma ? ooop theys on me head still - that kinda stuff .

What about that extractor question I hid in that post ? Uberti one gonna fit an original 73 or no?

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2018, 12:21:13 PM »
Greyhawk,

Ah, ... Umm ... ah ... well .... Dunno.  I know at one time I look'd into it.  But the answer has excaped with the brain cells that also excaped through the open places that use to hold down my hair.   Oops.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2018, 07:25:03 PM »
Greyhawk,

Ah, ... Umm ... ah ... well .... Dunno.  I know at one time I look'd into it.  But the answer has excaped with the brain cells that also excaped through the open places that use to hold down my hair.   Oops.

Ah well its in the mail - if it dont fit I proly can fit it - if that dont work guess I get to make one !

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Possible extractor issues
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2019, 06:55:25 PM »
Ah well its in the mail - if it dont fit I proly can fit it - if that dont work guess I get to make one !


This is old but might help someone
Uberti extractor duly arrived and it fit but it didnt fit (into an original model 73 winchester)
Everything in the right place EXCEPT for the pin hole that retains the extractor in the bolt
Sooo ........trying to move the pin hole in that hard extractor to match the bolt ?? didnt look  like a smart idea so
I drilled the winchester bolt to fit the Uberti extractor - in case at some point in the future he breaks another extractor

The problem came about following a rebarrel  (a mate did that work) the old rifle had done a lot of work and the lil beard on the bottom of the bolt had a groove worn in it from rim contact - too much headspace - groove is partway up the slope of the beard - hes fixed the headspace problem and a new shell has snagged going in the chamber and not come all the way up the slope of the beard till the last hearty push from the lever - burred up shell - difficult extract - 140 yr old extractor ........ dunno just how this played exacly - but I had sticky feed problem at slow cycle speed till I smoothed and polished the front ramp slope of that beard thing and then the old girl was back as slick as could be. 

 

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