1873 recommendation

[Grumpy Granville]

Hi folks - at one time I had a Taylors 1873 half-round .38/.357.  I loved the rifle but had many others at the time therefore, I sold it 

As of late, I've been hankering for another and have settled upon the blued carbine offered by Uberti (19").  I am aware Miroku is offering rifles bearing the Winchester name however, the roll-stamps really, really turn me off.

I've settled on a Cimarron 45 LC for no reason other than the roll stamps and the Kings patent, script.  Unfortunate b/c I'm only an afternoons drive away from Taylors where I could actually place my grubby paws upon the hardware and make a selection.  Further, the gals are pretty and they are very, very nice folks to deal with.  Nonetheless, I'm hung up on the roll-stamp.  I'm in the DC/MD/VA area; can someone recommend a Cimarron dealer where I might be able to select a rifle, in person. 

*I contacted, what appears, to be a large dealer in Alabama however, when I telegraphed to find out if they'll provide photo's of the actual hardware, they laughed.  Then, they explained there would be a 15% re-stocking fee if I received the rifle and chose to send it back.  I laughed.

Thank you kindly for your advice.

[King Medallion]

Well if you want advise, get a short rifle in a proper 73 caliber, 44-40 or 38-40. That's my advice.

[Grumpy Granville]

Well if you want advise, get a short rifle in a proper 73 caliber, 44-40 or 38-40. That's my advice.

I can appreciate that but, nah, I'm going to go with 45LC because I'm already set-up to reload for it + I like the cartridge just fine.  Know of any stocking dealers local to me that are known for square dealing?  I'd like to avoid getting hornswaggled by a large dealer peddling his wares as though they were nothing more than sheer commodity.

Then again - is there something inherent about the 45LC in a '73 that's problematic?

[Advertising]

[Grumpy Granville]

Come to think of it, I do have another question about the carbines.  Please, forgive my lack of knowledge surrounding original Winchester 1873 carbines.

Correct me if I am wrong; the original had a provision to store a cleaning rod in the butt??  If so, do the Uberti clones have this provision?

[treebeard]

Grumpy—I started out with 45LC and still like it but have grown to love the 38-40 & 44-40.  To reload those original bottle neck cartridges is to love them! Of course their are advantages to not multiplying calibers.

[Abilene]

Uberti has trapdoors in the buttstock of Highwalls and Henries, but not any of the '66 or '73 models.  Anyone with an FFL can order direct from Cimarron and get the dealer price.  So anyone near you could order the carbine for you.  I'm not sure what you want to see on it ahead of time, unless it is what the wood looks like?  Some choices in ordering carbines would be all blue vs. case colored frame, and saddle ring vs. no saddle ring.  The fit and finish should be good on any model.  If the carbine arrives to the dealer with a cosmetic defect or damage, he should be able to return it if it is unfired and unmolested.

[Grumpy Granville]

Thank you for the comments.  

treebeard - once again, I can certainly appreciate the affinity for 44-40 & 38-40, I completely get it.  That said, I guess I should be clear.  I cannot stand reloading and there is nothing fun, challenging, inspiring or, mysterious about reloading that piques my interest.  Perhaps that will change one day but until then, I intend to stick w/45LC in lieu of expanding my reloading capacity.  My reloading effort is rooted in two things; the ability to load powder-puff loads and as a cost savings measure, nothing more.  I do appreciate your comments and thank you for sharing them.

Abilene - thanks for making me aware of the models inclusive of the trapdoor and, for citing the nomenclature of such.  (I wasn't able to find any online reference showing whether the carbines included this feature, or not). Also, the Taylor I once owned and, all the Uberti's I've handled have been impeccably made and the wood to metal fit was always top-shelf..it sounds as though that's still the case based upon your comments.  That's welcomed news and does lay my mind at ease a bit when it comes to ordering a gun sight-unseen.  I'm not looking for figure or fiddleback in the wood and, I'm fine with straight grain walnut but, I DO want good wood to metal fit and matching fore to butt coloration.  Maybe I'm concerning myself with something silly?

[Abilene]

... but, I DO want good wood to metal fit and matching fore to butt coloration.  Maybe I'm concerning myself with something silly?

Wellll, Uberti's USUALLY have a decent color match forend to buttstock, but not always.  If the dealer asks for that to be checked when it is ordered, hopefully someone can do that. 

[Grumpy Granville]

-UPDATE-

Dammit all the hell!! 

After feeling like I was set to be tarred & feathered because I merely suggested acquiring an 1873 in 45LC.  I relented and ordered a carbine in 44-40.

At the end of the day, I caved for one simple reason - it's the cartridge the 1873 was literally designed to shoot.

Now I have to set up to reload the damn things.

Dammit all the hell 

Thanks to everyone who chimed-in.  I ordered sight-unseen and will hope for good wood>metal and matching stocks.

[Daniel Dodge]

This exchange gave me a chuckle. You won't regret 44-40, especially if you ever shoot black out of it. I'm sure you will be pleased with the quality of a Cimarron/Uberti. remember to post some pics when you get it! I'm a carbine fan as well.

DD

[Grumpy Granville]

There mighta' been another reason I went for 44-40

I read a thread on this site going over the finer points of 44-40 vs 45LC

"Fingers McGee" pretty much summed it up in all of six words when he stated, "I'm a MaryAnn kind of guy".  He had me at Mary Ann..

Dammit all the hell  

--

Guess I'll start off by picking up some factory loads - I'd be interested in experience with different brass manufacturers so I can at least get some factory loads in the cases I'll use for reloading..dammit.  I HATE reloading  

Starline - Winchester - Remington brass??  Is one better than the other for this particular cartridge?

[FriscoCounty]

If you shoot .45LC in your revolvers, think long and hard about getting a rifle in .44-40.  A good day can be ruined if you accidentally load a .45LC cartridge into your rifle.  Once you try to jack it in, everything stops and the screwdrivers come out.   

[Grumpy Granville]

If you shoot .45LC in your revolvers, think long and hard about getting a rifle in .44-40.  A good day can be ruined if you accidentally load a .45LC cartridge into your rifle.  Once you try to jack it in, everything stops and the screwdrivers come out.  

I can certainly understand why that would ruin someone's day.  Won't be an issue for me b/c I haven't any 45 revolvers but, I have been considering a pair so..

Everything I've read indicates Starline brass is a bit harder so, considering the thin wall of the 44-40 cartridge, I ordered-up a couple boxes of Black Hillls ammo to kick things off.  The outfit didn't have shell plates for a Hornady press so I held back on ordering dies et al.  

I'm pretty excited to receive the carbine as I truly loved the rifle I had several yrs ago..a friend wanted it something terrible so I let it go.  I've got a couple 1894's which I greatly appreciate but there was just something about that 73.  The machining on that rifle was wonderfully executed inside and out & the quality for the $$ was tough to beat in today's sad manufacturing environment.  I just can't believe I got talked into another cartridge..

Did I mention how much I truly hate reloading  

[King Medallion]

Well. You did the right thing. Adding a couple of SAA's will only sweeten the pot. As for reloading, well, that's up to you. I love reloading, almost as much as shooting. I find it peaceful and theroputic. I don't reload to save money, but rather the search for the best load for any given caliber. I just happen to love the Old West and it's weapons. The 44-40 is easy to load for, just take your time and take care.

[Little Dalton]

Congratulations on the .44WCF! IMHO, anyone who hates reloading is either not set up right, doesn't shoot BP enough, or just isn't doing it right.  Just kidding! There is a wealth of good info on reloading this venerable cartridge on these forums.

[Cliff Fendley]

Congrats on the 44-40. The WCF cartridges are the way a 73 is meant to be.

[King Medallion]

I use Starline and Winchester brass. I would expect if your going to load for Black Powder, go with Winchester brass. It is a tad thinner and will seam the chamber better. If loading smokeless, go with what floats your boat, all will work. As for dies, everyone has their preference. All will do the job. I myself have been using the same Lyman set for over 20 years, no issues. I use .428 bullets, and use a .429 mouth sizing bell. I would suggest a Lee Factory Crimp Die, or a second roll crimp die. I like to seat and crimp in two separate stages, less change of case buckle. Thats me. You will learn to do whats best for you. Again, the key to loading 44-40 is to take your time. Haste makes waste. Enjoy.

[Grumpy Granville]

Thank you gentlemen for your kind words of encouragement.  KM - I share your love for the old west and although I've demonstrated a bit of cantankerous resistance to dive into the 44-40 cartridge; as I mentioned and, graciously concede, the gun was literally designed around the cartridge..that's cool.  Those suggesting it in spite of my pushback were right.  My disdain for reloading is borne from the fact I'm a machinist by trade.  Further, I have a small professional shop of my own and I am knees-deep in tolerances and fine measurements, along with the precision tools required, virtually all day, every day.  The last thing I want to do to support a hobby is more friggen' work.  Further still, my business is knees-deep in the defense industry where I'm dealing with "go-bang" assemblies, and parts, all friggin' day.  

I can absolutely relate and, appreciate why reloading would be relaxing and interesting to someone not engaged in my type of work.  For me, it only serves to burn me out sometimes.  

Despite this fact and, despite the fact I've remained pretty Grumpy about the ordeal, I must admit I'm excited to dive into the 44 WCF because I'm no stranger to lever action rifles and the type of ammo they want to consume.  The short taper inherent to the cartridge & the thin wall, by design, checks-off two fundamentally key design elements that should make the mechanism run like butter, as intended.  I've always placed a good deal of emphasis on the crimps of my 45 & 38 cartridges to ensure a good feed that's not likely to hang-up.  I've also spent my share of time annealing cases to rid of blowback because I do like pleasant shooting loads which as I'm sure this board knows = low pressure.  I hope the 44-40 inherently relieves the requirement to remediate small problems that are created by use of a cartridge not designed for the rifle.  

Thanks, once again, to all who chimed-in.  I sure wasn't expecting to go 44 WCF but I do think it's the right move..still makes me pretty damned Grumpy though!!  Dammit  

KM - our posts crossed.  I've grown to prefer Redding dies however I have the RCBS standard and Cowboy dies for other calibers.  Since the outfit didn't have the shell plate I needed, I figure I'll just hold off and slug the barrel once the gun's arrived before any other move toward reloading.  I've never used Lyman dies, perhaps I'll give those a try..thanks again.

[Fingers McGee]

Howdy Grumpy.  Good to meet another "MaryAnn kinda guy". Welcome to the world of bottle necked cartridges.  As far as brass & all goes, I use Starline cases for 44-40, 38 spcl and 45cs.  If I recall correctly, Black Hills uses Starline as well.  I use RCBS dies and a Redding profile crimp die on a Hornady L-N-L progressive press with a Hornady BP powder measure.  

[treebeard]

I will plus one on King Medallion’s reloading methods. I especially like using the Lee factory crimp die in a separate station.