.44 Russian in 44-40?

[PJ Hardtack]

Out of curiosity, I tried chambering some .44 Spl. and .44 Russian rds in a 44-40 revolver. The .44 Russian rds chambered just fine, the .44 Spl. not.

I'm temped to fire some. What is the worst thing that could happen?

It would be like firing a .44 Russian in a .44 magnum chamber - a long jump for the bullet to the rifling.

[greyhawk]

Curiosity killed the cat .
44/40 is smaller at the business end - case walls much thinner up font - so a 44spec or a magnum is gonna be squeezed tight there in a neat chamber
also 44/40 a bit bigger at the buttend - leaves room for case bulging so its gonna weaken the case wall right ahead of the solid head - they proly tough enough to stand it ok - but this is where separations occur if and when they do - in most guns this bulging is gonna be offcenter - do that matter?
The price of brass being what it is (cheap) we gotta wonder ......why?

[PJ Hardtack]

I was chambering .44 Russian in a 44-40 chamber, not .44 magnum or .44 Spl.

According to the case spec dimensions in my Speer reloading books, here's how the .44 Russian and the 44-40 stack up:

.44 Russian

- case length - .9700"

- rim thickness - .0600

- diameter ahead of rim - .4570"

44-40

- length up to beginning of shoulder taper - .9275"

- rim thickness - .0650"

- diameter ahead of rim - .4711"

It does look like there would be some case bulging. Only way to find out is to fire a few rds.

My caliper needs a new battery, but in eyeballing my Winchester, Remington and a new batch of Star Line brass, there are several case dimension differences evident. For example, I don't get the case bulges with my Winchester brass that I do with the Star Line, suggesting that the latter is thicker walled.

When I first got my Uberti .44 Russian, I had some .44 Spl. turned down by a friend. There was a difference in wall thickness at the case mouth, but things worked out rather well.

I've also had .455 cases made from .45 Long Colt, trimming to length and thinning the rims. Again, they were not 100% factory spec, but they loaded just fine.

As to why would I want to do this? It has always interested me how ammunition for a particular calibre can be made from other sources and using various dies.

Call it the winter cabin fever crazies.

[Advertising]

[Coffinmaker]

Well .... Hi PJ   

Cabin Fever can be a terrible thing.  However, let us skip all the decimal points and drawings.

First - The 44 Russian case is considerably smaller in diameter than the 44-40 at the base and throughout the entire case dimension.

So:  The Russian Case is not going to load concentrically.  At ignition, the projectile is going to rattle around in the chamber until it engages the rifling and won't be real accurate.

At ignition, the case won't come anywhere near sealing the chamber.  Blow-By will be .... notable.  The projectile will stop at the rifling and act as an obstruction, increasing Blow-By.

The case may or may not bulge.  You may not get enough pressure to bulge the case due to Blow-By.  You will probably get a face full of gun-gas.  Hot gun-gas. 

I would seriously doubt you would see any kind of a catastrophic result, but harmonious it won't be.  Not recommended. 

[Professor Marvel]

What Coffin said.

If you are lucky, PJ, you'll only get a case spilt lengthwise with hot gasses going backwards.
If you are not lucky you'll get a case separation and you'll be trying to find a remover like poor old doug...

wow is there something in the air lately?

If you are really really bored, you can cobble up some wax bullets & primers  and shoot indoors....
i've been doing that a lot lately...

yhs
prof marvel.

[Dave T]

I hav never understood the propensity for people to try the wrong cartridge in their firearms. And this is not limited to the cowboy/old west shooters. I've met people who wanted to shoot everything from a 38 S&W (because he could force them in the chambers) to a 38 Super (because most of them went off) in their 357 Mag revolvers. The rational always seems to be a "because I can" mind set. Way back in the in my youth I was told to only shoot the proper and appropriate ammunition in any firearm. And yet for some reason folks just can't resist trying something just because it will fit, or because it's close enough. Good grief!

And, if you want to try the wax bullet thing, set aside some cases just for that and drill out the flash holes to a larger diameter. It will help prevent primer set back that can jam up your revolver. One of those lessons learned the hard way. (smile)

Dave

[PJ Hardtack]

I Have been present twice when 44-40 rds were unintentionally fired in .45 revolvers. Nothing spectacular happened, but you wouldn't want to reload the cases.

Our club annual team steel shoot trophy has a 38-55 case on it that was unintentionally fired in a 45-70. Interesting 'wild cat' case was the net result.

Strange no one commented on the .44 Spl. cases I had turned down to .44 Russian or the .455 cases made from .45 Long Colt.

[Baltimore Ed]

I've 'made' .455 brass but .45 long colt brass is on the thick side when you trim it that short. .45 Schofield brass works better. I watched a fellow cowboy shoot the wrong undersized cartridge in his pistols, they all went bang but he didn't hit any steel. When he got to the unloading table he realized what he'd done we all got a good laugh.

[Cliff Fendley]

Out of curiosity, I tried chambering some .44 Spl. and .44 Russian rds in a 44-40 revolver. The .44 Russian rds chambered just fine, the .44 Spl. not.

I'm temped to fire some. What is the worst thing that could happen?

It would be like firing a .44 Russian in a .44 magnum chamber - a long jump for the bullet to the rifling.

You're kidding.....right?

[Coffinmaker]

Ok PJ, SINCE YOU ASK'D

There is really no problem at all cutting 44 Spl cases back to 44 Russian.  The case mouth will be just a little thick but it will work just fine.  Oh, because of the slightly thicker case you may be getting a little more blow-by.

Before there were Cowboy 45 Special cases, I was making the same thing out of 45 Colt (45 "long" colt is a misnomer) and 45 Schofield.  Worked a treat for reduced loads.  Have know others for years whom were making 455 out of 45 Colt.  Also worked rather well.  These, however, are all very very close in case outside dimension.  Big difference.

[Abilene]

There was a guy on here some years ago who regularly shot 44 Russian cases in his 44-40 Henry, using a modified carrier to feed the shorter round.  Lots of folks said "ohh, bad juju" but he says he had no problems.  I don't recall him saying if he was able to reload those cases or not.

[PJ Hardtack]

Didn't intend to stir up a hornet's nest. I may eventually risk a few cases to see what happens, but it's not a priority. Got a few other issues to deal with .....

Right now I'm doing a run of .44 Russian for my wife. Because the RCBS 'Cowboy' seat/crimp die is in the 3rd station of my Dillon 550B, I have to use it in my RCBS Jr. or remove it and use it in a separate operation. That's a PITA.

My RCBS 44-40 sizer die (not 'Cowboy') is likewise not Dillon compatible and will not FL resize sufficiently to allow cases to chamber in my wife's 44-40 revolver, meaning a separate sizing operation right off the bat.

Nor is my RCBS 44-40 (not 'Cowboy') seat/crimp die Dillon compatible, which is not too upsetting as I prefer using the Lee FCD, but .....

the Lee 44-40 factory crimp die is not Dillon compatible necessitating a separate crimping operation.

Question: are the RCBS 44-40 'Cowboy' dies Dillon compatible?

As for the term ".45 Long Colt" being a misnomer, Mike Venturino wrote an article on the topic of .45 cartridge nomenclature and he used the term to distinguish it from the array of other .45 cartridges.

[wildman1]

My wife uses LFC dies in both of her 550's as well as other Lee dies, the only Dillon dies we use are the powder thru funnels so they are compatible with the powder hopper. In our SDB we cannot use Lee dies OR regular Dillon dies.
wM1

[greyhawk]

What Coffin said.

If you are lucky, PJ, you'll only get a case spilt lengthwise with hot gasses going backwards.
If you are not lucky you'll get a case separation and you'll be trying to find a remover like poor old doug...

wow is there something in the air lately?

If you are really really bored, you can cobble up some wax bullets & primers  and shoot indoors....
i've been doing that a lot lately...

yhs
prof marvel.

perfesser
Inside the house ?? really
The wax splatters on the wall would be ok -- powder burn on the rug ? yeah maybe I could get away with that even (muddy boots inside ya know) - but what would really bring this scheme undone at my place would be the awful horrible stench of those floral air fresheners she would use to try and cover up the blackpowder scent left in the curtains .......nah ... this one I cannot get away wid.

[wildman1]

He's just usin primers and wax. No powdah.
wM1
PS works great

[Dave T]

As for the term ".45 Long Colt" being a misnomer, Mike Venturino wrote an article on the topic of .45 cartridge nomenclature and he used the term to distinguish it from the array of other .45 cartridges.

Ya know, Venturino is just a gun writer. That doesn't make him an authority. Heck I was a gun writer for 7 years and I'm nobody's authority. I believe the correct designation is "45 Colt" because that's how it started out. This "Long" business didn't come along until sometime after the Schofield round was adopted. Since the original designation was "45 Colt" why isn't "45 Short" more correct for the Schofield???

Dave

[Baltimore Ed]

And the .455 Webley should be .455 Webley Way Short and a .450 Webley would be How in the world do you have any room for the daggone powder and a bullet Short Short.

[PJ Hardtack]

Yup and yup. I look at the .44 Russian compared to the .44 Spl. and .44 Magnum and refer to the Russian as the .44 Short.

[Cliff Fendley]

Didn't intend to stir up a hornet's nest. I may eventually risk a few cases to see what happens, but it's not a priority. Got a few other issues to deal with .....

Right now I'm doing a run of .44 Russian for my wife. Because the RCBS 'Cowboy' seat/crimp die is in the 3rd station of my Dillon 550B, I have to use it in my RCBS Jr. or remove it and use it in a separate operation. That's a PITA.

My RCBS 44-40 sizer die (not 'Cowboy') is likewise not Dillon compatible and will not FL resize sufficiently to allow cases to chamber in my wife's 44-40 revolver, meaning a separate sizing operation right off the bat.

Nor is my RCBS 44-40 (not 'Cowboy') seat/crimp die Dillon compatible, which is not too upsetting as I prefer using the Lee FCD, but .....

the Lee 44-40 factory crimp die is not Dillon compatible necessitating a separate crimping operation.

Question: are the RCBS 44-40 'Cowboy' dies Dillon compatible?

As for the term ".45 Long Colt" being a misnomer, Mike Venturino wrote an article on the topic of .45 cartridge nomenclature and he used the term to distinguish it from the array of other .45 cartridges.

The Lee FCD IS Dillion compatible. I use them on two different tool heads set up for 44-40 and two tool heads for 32-20.

It does work best to turn or grind off the first couple threads on the outside of the die body for clearance on the shellholder.

I also use RCBS Cowboy dies in the Dillion for the same cartridges.

RCBS cowboy dies and Lee FCD are the only way to go for the WCF cartridges and they work perfect in the Dillion presses.

[Professor Marvel]

Hey PJ

no hornets nest, it's just january and we are all bored.
did you know that Walmart has a S&W Shoffield BB gun? .... now thats bored...

I SHULD HvE sid

DMN CMPTR

I should have said "best case will be blown out non-contric cases...." then the rest...

hey as long as we keep it civil lets chew the fat...

yhs
prof ( cleaning the garage, the sheds, the crawlspaxes...) bored