Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
February 18, 2019, 03:58:22 am

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: Vintage news - The wild West only lasted 30 years 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Vintage news - The wild West only lasted 30 years  (Read 2809 times)
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5997



« on: December 16, 2017, 09:56:28 pm »


We all know this don't we.

http://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/12/16/wild-west-era/
Logged

NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
Buffalo Creek Law Dog
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 466



« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 02:40:10 pm »

The difference between the U.S. old west and the Canadian old west is that in the U.S. the settlers went west first, then came law enforcement, such as it was at the time.  In Canada the law (North West Mounted Police) went west first, established law and order, had the Indian treaties signed, and then the settlers came. 
Logged

SASS 66621
BOLD 678
AFS 43
NFA
ABPA
Galloway
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 412



« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 10:56:44 pm »

If you work outside i'd say your nailing about 95% of the old west. Im pretty sure someones done that since 1895.
Logged
Cholla Hill Tirador
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 531


« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 10:49:00 pm »

  Did someone actually pay him to write that nonsense???

  CHT
Logged
Dave T
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 332


« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 11:10:18 am »

I've always considered the "Old West" era to be from the end of the War between the States up to at least to 1912 when Arizona and New Mexico became states. It might be said it continued until WWI when a lot of rural people (mostly the men) traveled far from home for the first time to serve in the military and discovered the big wide world. Prior to that, at least in many rural areas there wasn't all that much difference between 1890 (generally accepted as still part of the Era) and 1910 to possibly as late as 1915.

My $.02 worth,
Dave
Logged
scrubby2009
Very Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 68


Lifelong obsession with '73's


« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 11:39:41 pm »

I'd concur with Dave T. My great-grandfather was born in 1902, western Michigan. Raised on a ranch in central Oregon and based on his stories ( he passed in 1994 from old age and inactivity with a clear head) I'd say that was correct. Aside from a train ride to Oregon as a tyke, his childhood was very much a continuation of the prior era, 1860-1890. No amenities on the hardscrabble subsistence ranch the family owned, his older brother broke wild horses and sold them , they cut cordwood and delivered it to the Willamette River boats for some scarce cash. The few photographs surviving show a lopsided roughsawn two-room house and pole barn covered in home-split shakes. My earliest memory of the man I was 4 years old, splitting shakes in the woodshed on a snowy day with a mallet and the froe he claimed was his fathers. Up into the 1980's he and grandma grew or traded for probably half of what food and other consumables they needed to live. Thrifty with themselves and generous with family and strangers alike, they have been a cherished memory for me, source of many stories my kids grew up hearing, and a connection I miss deeply to a simpler and more honorable time.
Logged

Responsive, timely, tactically accurate, and strategically precise fire.
G Bulldog Grainisland III
Active citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49



« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2018, 02:11:34 am »

I've always considered the "Old West" era to be from the end of the War between the States up to at least to 1912 when Arizona and New Mexico became states. It might be said it continued until WWI when a lot of rural people (mostly the men) traveled far from home for the first time to serve in the military and discovered the big wide world. Prior to that, at least in many rural areas there wasn't all that much difference between 1890 (generally accepted as still part of the Era) and 1910 to possibly as late as 1915.

My $.02 worth,
Dave

Well put. I'm gladly adding my 2 cents to this definiton

-Bulldog
Logged
Crow Choker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 803


River Banker Extraordinaire


« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2018, 07:02:59 am »

I'd say to that Dave T pretty much 'hit it on the head'. I'd add that there different periods within that time but all interrelated. As a side note, my Dad born and raised in Iowa said that when he served aboard a ship during WW2 that several guys from the Boston/New York City area asked him if he/those in the Midwest still had problems with Indian raids and other problems related.
 Grin Grin
Logged

Darksider-1911 Shooter-BOLD Chambers-RATS-SCORRS-STORM-1860 Henry(1866)-Colt Handgun Lover an' Fan-NRA-"RiverRat"-Conservative American Patriot and Former Keeper & Enforcer of the Law an' Proud of Being Both! >oo
greyhawk
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 584


« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2018, 09:43:43 am »

I'd say to that Dave T pretty much 'hit it on the head'. I'd add that there different periods within that time but all interrelated. As a side note, my Dad born and raised in Iowa said that when he served aboard a ship during WW2 that several guys from the Boston/New York City area asked him if he/those in the Midwest still had problems with Indian raids and other problems related.
 Grin Grin


I reckon I would go with the original definition - 1863 to 1893 ?  the land rush for the cherokee strip was pretty much the end of free land .
We saw the same thing here (Australia) from 1850 to 1875 most all of the decent useable land had been gobbled up by the squatters (your free range ranchers) - by 1900 it was settled, fenced, and the process of carving up the big estates (closer settlement) had started - things were rough and tough in the period that followed, (say 1890 to 1915) but different, there was some semblance of organised law, 
Logged
St. George
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4609


NCOWS , GAF, B.O.L.D., Order of St. George, SOCOM,


« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 09:57:57 am »

In 1883, Buffalo Bill's Wild West was founded in North Platte, Nebraska - when Buffalo Bill Cody turned his real life adventure into the first outdoor western show.

This would mark of the end of the Wild West/Old West so beloved by dime novelists.

Yes, cattle would still be driven, and outlaws roamed, as did Indians - but the railroad soon civilized the towns on the line and barbed wire did the rest.

The Old West ceased to be the day they sold tickets to see it.

The Time-Life series 'The Old West' does a good accounting of what really happened.

Scouts Out!

Logged

"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."
Dave T
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 332


« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2018, 02:19:16 pm »


The Old West ceased to be the day they sold tickets to see it.


Not trying to be argumentative but please explain this? Western/Frontier literature, both personal and researched histories, relate a great deal of "Old West" activity being a part of everyday life well after the date of that ticket sale.

Dave
Logged
Trailrider
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2096



WWW
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2018, 03:02:15 pm »

You can argue when the "Old West" began as being post-CW, although I think a good case can be made for when the first explorers and settlers began to push west from eastern seaboard, over the Cumberland mountains.  As far as when "The Old West" ended, IMHO, it basically faded out when the automobile became more commonly owned. But even then, I would extend that to when the first paved roads became common, allowing more ease of travel and communication west of the Mississippi. Until then, transportation, aside from the railroads, depended on animals, as it had since the domestication of the horse! (If you consider outlaws such as Bonnie & Clyde as part of the Old West, their use of the automobile would certainly meet the above criteria!)

IMHO, the Old West provided an outlet for the excess energies of the Eastern cities. A hundred-and-fifty years ago, a restless young man (and even some women), could set out for the frontier to seek his/her fortune. Some, like Billy McCarty (aka Billy The Kid), a product of the New York slums, came to a fatal end. Some, like Kid Russell, scion of a prominent transportation outfit (Russell, Majors and Waddell), sent west to "get it out of his system", became a cowboy...and a chronicler of the West through his paintings and sculptures. (I often look at a certain Western sunset and comment that Charlie Russell is busy today!)

Sadly, we no longer have a frontier for our youth to go to very easily, if at all.  Our only frontier is straight up!  And, while this may be an oversimplification, I think it accounts for a lot of the problems our youth sometimes get into!  Maybe, in twenty or thirty or fifty or a hundred years, access to the "Final Frontier" will be cheap enough to give them a "New West" to settle!
Ad LEO! Ad LUNA! Ad Ares! AD ASTRA!  (To Low Earth Orbit! To the Moon! To Mars! TO THE STARS!)
Logged

Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

Your obedient servant,
Trailrider,
Bvt. Lt. Col. Commanding,
Southern District
Dept. of the Platte, GAF
Tsalagidave
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 666


Dave Rodgers


« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2018, 03:24:57 pm »

Although the US Census Department declared the frontier "closed" after the Oklahoma Land Rush of 1889, the Wild West lived on much later than that and the testimonies given by the other members here serve as good examples.  It can arguably be said that the "Wild West" lives on today.  Despite the current "snowflake" phenomenon, the values of rugged individualism, admiration of wide open spaces and personal property, private firearm ownership, the right to self-defense or making citizen's arrests, and a desire for disaster preparation are all still very evident.  I've been fortunate to visit and work in many countries around the world but that "Wild West" or "Cowboy" - "Can-do" mentality is very American and it makes us stand out like sore thumbs... but in a good way.

I would probably rephrase it at the period of the "American West" which started off with the Lewis and Clark expedition to continue through what is known as the "Expansionist Era" that lasted to right up to the beginning of the American Civil War. This would include the Mountain Man, Westward Movement, California Gold Rush, & Sierra Nevada gold/silver rush. Following the American Civil War, a succession of westward land rushes continued incrementally right up into the 1950s. My friends and I still to this day are "horse-people" with guns at the ready and hospitable hearts for those in need.  So from where I sit, it aint over yet. However, if I were to call it the "Old West" for the sake of "wild woolly, heroes & outlaws" I would probably cite it from 1804 to about 1935.

In either case, I don't know why the author failed to identify the 60-year period before the end of the Civil War and at least add that on to the years leading up to the 1890s.

-Dave
Logged

Guns don't kill people; fathers with pretty daughters do.
greyhawk
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 584


« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2018, 05:13:55 pm »

Although the US Census Department declared the frontier "closed" after the Oklahoma Land Rush of 1889, the Wild West lived on much later than that and the testimonies given by the other members here serve as good examples.  It can arguably be said that the "Wild West" lives on today.  Despite the current "snowflake" phenomenon, the values of rugged individualism, admiration of wide open spaces and personal property, private firearm ownership, the right to self-defense or making citizen's arrests, and a desire for disaster preparation are all still very evident.  I've been fortunate to visit and work in many countries around the world but that "Wild West" or "Cowboy" - "Can-do" mentality is very American and it makes us stand out like sore thumbs... but in a good way.

You must have missed australia in youre travels - western queensland - the drier parts of northern territory
We were still doing overland cattle drives of 1500 miles in the 1960's
Logged
Tsalagidave
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 666


Dave Rodgers


« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2018, 02:03:39 pm »

Good point.  I should not have forgotten about our Australian cousins.  I have only been to the Sydney area so that does not count. I have not yet seen the real Australia which still has a wide open howling wilderness.

-Dave
Logged

Guns don't kill people; fathers with pretty daughters do.
Fox Creek Kid
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4500



« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2018, 02:41:57 pm »

...The Old West ceased to be the day they sold tickets to see it...


I like that line.  Grin  Wink


I will however tender the notion that the Wild West began long before 1865 as there were wild & rowdy mining camps and ol' California was a Helluva place where civilian "gunfighting" as we think of it today originated. It's true origin most likely was by soldiers issued Walkers in the conquest of Mexico who mopped up all resistance in Mexico City and the legendary (and controversial at the time) Texas Rangers in the war as well.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a416963.pdf
Logged
Professor Marvel
purveyor of useless items to the gentry
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1858


learn from the past, or be doomed to repeat it


« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2018, 06:46:30 pm »

......However, if I were to call it the "Old West" for the sake of "wild woolly, heroes & outlaws" I would probably cite it from 1804 to about 1935.....

-Dave

I agree with Dave . The "Boonies" West of the Mississippi and East of the Sierra Nevadas remained "Old West" almost until WW2.

In my mind, the three big game changers were the auto/truck, telephone, and electricity.

Unless you were  a city slicker,  you were most likely a member of the rural population, and more likely
to be Less Civilized and more Wild. Until you got past the horse and wagon and got a telephone, you were
completely dependant upon yourself. Many New Mexicans depended on the horse and wagon to get into
town once a month until the end of the Great Depression. 

note 3 big kickover points in rural numbers: 1870, 1920, and 1970

1800-1970: Changes In Urban/Rural U.S. Population

Year      Urban   Rural
1800      6%      94%
1810      7%      93%
1820      7%      93%
1830      9%      91%
1840      11%      89%
1850      15%      85%
1860      20%      80%
1870      26%      74%
1880      28%      72%
1890      35%      65%
1900      40%      60%
1910      46%      54%
1920      51%      49%
1930      56%      44%
1940      57%      43%
1950      60%      40%
1960      63%      37%
1970      74%      26%


until 1936 with the REA most rural homes had no electricity  at all. Those who did used windmill generators,
small scale hydro, or (the wealthy) used steam generator or an internal cimbustion generator.

Some rural folks had a lamp and a radio run by battery, which was charged in the truck when it was driven.

Heating and coooking was done with wood, keroscene  and coal,  lighting with candles and Hurricane and  Aladin oil lamps.

The Rural Electrification Act of 1936, enacted on May 20, 1936, provided federal loans for the installation of electrical distribution systems to serve isolated rural areas of the United States, Wiring homes and farms.

REA crews traveled through the American countryside, bringing teams of electricians along with them. The electricians added wiring to houses and barns to utilize the newly available power provided by the line crews. A standard REA installation in a house consisted of:

  A 60 amp, 230 volt fuse panel, with:
-     A 60 amp range circuit
-     A 20 amp kitchen circuit
-     Two or three 15 amp lighting circuits


A ceiling-mounted light fixture was installed in each room, usually controlled by a single switch mounted near a door. At most, one outlet was installed per room, since plug-connected appliances were expensive and uncommon. Wiring was performed using type NM (nonmetallic sheathed cable), insulated with asbestos-reinforced rubber covered with jute and tar.

Several friends here in rural New Mexico never had electricity until they installed a modern LP generator, in the 1990's . Running a line
several miles from the power pole was just too costly.


yhs
prof marvel
Logged

Your Humble Servant
~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
President, CEO, Chairman,  and Chief Bottle Washer of
Professor Marvel's
Traveling Apothecary
and
Fortune Telling Emporium


Acclaimed By The Crowned Heads of Europe
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Powder, Percussion Caps, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods,
and
Picture Postcards

Offering Unwanted Advice for All Occasions
and
Providing Useless Items to the Gentry
Since 1822
[
Available by Appointment for Lectures on Any Topic
Tsalagidave
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 666


Dave Rodgers


« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2018, 01:34:34 am »

Great points Professor.

I got a lot of my foundation knowledge on life in the 1800s from My grandparents who grew up in 1880s era houses without electricity or running water out in Chelsea and Claremore during the 1920-30s. My grandpa always cited what a big deal it was when his house was finally connected to the line from the local gasworks.

My uncle Clyde was childhood playmates with Pretty Boy Floyd, while my uncle Kermin Bradshaw got wounded while robbing a bank with his brothers in the Cookson Hills. My great cousin ran a man down with her Ford while making a bootlegging run, while another uncle was an affiliate of Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow but my grandma and aunt Coot did not like saying too much about "those two".

-Dave
Logged

Guns don't kill people; fathers with pretty daughters do.
shrapnel
There is nothing like the original
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 183


Keeping what made the West safe, alive


« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 02:29:26 pm »



You can make claims of why the West wasn't The Old West, but it lasted longer than that story claims. My grandfather was born in 1872, homesteaded in Montana in 1908 and lived as they did in the 1880's. That was certainly wild. He went on and stabbed a guy in a bar fight in 1936 which ended the other guy's life and my grandfather's freedom. I would say that the Wild West lasted awhile into the 20th century...



Logged

I never considered myself a failure...I started out at the bottom and happen to like it here!
Coal Creek Griff
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1570



« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2019, 04:22:58 pm »

That's a great story, sir!  Is this "Kirk" your namesake?

CC Griff
Logged

Manager, WT Ranch--Coal Creek Division

BOLD #921
BOSS #196
1860 Henry Rifle Shooter #173
SSS #573
shrapnel
There is nothing like the original
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 183


Keeping what made the West safe, alive


« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2019, 04:31:39 pm »

I got his name and luckily avoided his temper...
Logged

I never considered myself a failure...I started out at the bottom and happen to like it here!
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: Vintage news - The wild West only lasted 30 years « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.073 seconds with 22 queries.