Author Topic: Help Trail Boss Mystery  (Read 9025 times)

Offline Charlie Bowdre

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Help Trail Boss Mystery
« on: October 19, 2017, 08:30:11 PM »
Guys , this is a long post so I ask for two things
1. HELP
2. Your indulgence

I am shooting a pair of 1872 Uberti Cimarron Open Tops , chambered in 45 Schofield

In March of this year I loaded up several hundred rounds with 4.5 grains of Trail Boss which I had in my Dillon reservoir

The first chance I had to use them was this past week . At the range I was getting this problem

I would fire a few rounds and get a squib , Fire a few more ..more squibs Cleared the bullet , most of which never left the barrel , some just barely..
Went home weighed over 200 rounds ...all consistent. Pulled a few , lots of powder. ??
Back to the range today ,same problem.

Another shooter questioned my loads in an effort to assist . I did tell him I had left the powder sitting in a clear plastic Dillon powder charger which I use on my 650 Dillon. This particular load of powder may have been in the reservoir for 3 to  months  He suggested it may have "gone  bad" seemed like the powder was not being completely burned off??

At the worst I have a projected to do this winter ...pull the remainder of the several hundred rounds I rolled!

Anyone ever hear of this before ? Does Trail Boss or any powder "go bad" if left exposed to light or humidity?
I'm not only stupid but really confused .
If I have not bored you to tears I would appreciate any replies here or by PM
Sincerely
Dutchie
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Offline Crow Choker

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2017, 08:47:39 PM »
I have heard of smokeless powder reacting chemically to the plastic of powder hoppers resulting in the deterioration of the powder-breaking down the chemical makeup of the powder. Can't give the actual process off the top of my head, but have always read and heard not to store powder in powder measure. Did the color of your power hopper change at all. I've heard of powder granules sticking to the sides of the interior, sometimes actually bonding to the plastic. If this happened to your Trail Boss, I'd say the whole lot is suspect and is unsafe and not reliable. I dump powder back in the can as soon as I'm done reloading, even if I plan on reloading the next day.
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Offline Charlie Bowdre

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2017, 09:01:06 PM »
Ts for the reply.
I did not notice any change to the hopper. I am going to make sure I return any powder to the original container from now on . This has me puzzeled ..but then again that doesen't take much1
Cheers
Dutchie
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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #3 on: Today at 11:20:12 AM »

Offline greyhawk

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 09:07:01 PM »
I have heard of smokeless powder reacting chemically to the plastic of powder hoppers resulting in the deterioration of the powder-breaking down the chemical makeup of the powder. Can't give the actual process off the top of my head, but have always read and heard not to store powder in powder measure. Did the color of your power hopper change at all. I've heard of powder granules sticking to the sides of the interior, sometimes actually bonding to the plastic. If this happened to your Trail Boss, I'd say the whole lot is suspect and is unsafe and not reliable. I dump powder back in the can as soon as I'm done reloading, even if I plan on reloading the next day.

I lost a can of IMI ball powder many years ago thru poor storage - it didnt look different but was doing what Dutchy describes - inconsistent half and quarter throttle loads - partial burning - lots of residue - been real careful ever since - humidity is the biggest killer I think - follow Crow Chokers system - put it back in its can - close the can - store in a cool dry place. If the powder had a few years on it before you bought it would not help either.  

Offline Charlie Bowdre

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2017, 09:14:54 PM »
Now that you mentioned it , there was  a bit of unburned powder on the table beside where I was shooting
 Thanks
Dutchie
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Offline rbertalotto

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 04:17:42 PM »
I shoot pounds of TB a month loading 44-40; 38-40; 45 Cowboy Special and 38 Special. I always leave it in the the LEE 1000 powder hopper. But not for a moth as I use it pretty fast. Also, my reloading room humidity is kept at 50%. Never ever had a squib load and I’ve fired over 10,000 rounds easily.
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Offline greyhawk

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 04:36:51 PM »
I shoot pounds of TB a month loading 44-40; 38-40; 45 Cowboy Special and 38 Special. I always leave it in the the LEE 1000 powder hopper. But not for a moth as I use it pretty fast. Also, my reloading room humidity is kept at 50%. Never ever had a squib load and I’ve fired over 10,000 rounds easily.

movin it through the system that quick it dont have time to deteriorate - you always gonna be shootin fresh powder at that rate !! some others of us are not so enthusiastic, lucky, dedicated, flush wid money 

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 05:01:58 PM »

Ah Ha!!

If your not in a very climate controlled environment, leaving powder in your measure for any length of time is a NO NO NO NO.  Smokeless powder is very .. read .. VERY .. susceptible to moisture.  If you happen to live in a somewhat humid climate, you powder will absorb the moisture out of the atmosphere (stuff you breathe) and rapidly become fertilizer.

Additionally, atmospheric moisture settles DOWN as in the Dew on your lawn in the morning.  As the evening cools, lower elevations such as a basement increase in humidity.  Your gunpowder will begin to suck up that moisture very rapidly.  Any gunpowder you leave in your hopper more than a day or two is suspect.  Makes good fertilizer.

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 07:10:43 PM »
Hi Dutchy,
Before going to the dark side I shot a lot of Trail Boss and had a similar problem. What the problem with TB is it falls through the powder measure like snow ( something we don't have here in central Texas, but I saw one time) very slowly because it is so fluffy and clumpy.
My method is to run the ram (Dillon 550B) up to drop powder,  count a couple of Mississippi's for the stuff to fall and continue.
I would suggest you run a few cases checking powder amount per pause and find the rhythm. My rate is to run the ram up, pick up the next case and push down the ram to prime.
In my 550B I use the big powder bar it seems to work better with that fluffy powder.
YMMV but it worked for me.
Good luck
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

Offline Charlie Bowdre

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 07:29:15 PM »
Thanks Pards for all your comments.
 I have to  say at first I was a little worried about posting . I have been on some sites where a post like mine would have won you a royal reaming
One thing I have to note is that as always this Form provides a good open discussion without any sarcasm and the usual smarta@@ comments

 I think it is a combination of long term improper storage ,combined with moisture in the loading area. Appreciate the replies .
All on me  ::)
Thank you
Dutchy
"I'm too old to go soldiering any more , too stiff in the joints to ride point and too dam fat to wrestle drunks Any day they don't pat you on the face with a shovel is a good one"

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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 07:49:49 PM »


Whoops!!  A minor correction to your impression there Dutchy.  I am always (almost always) a smarta$$.  I can't help it.  It's the voices in my head you understand.  I also believe an honest question deserves and honest answer.  As do most of us whom lurk here.  Although there is good possibility I'll deliver an honest answer with a modicum humor.  Some call it sarcasm (who??  Me???  Nah!!!).  And:

Yes.  Improper storage (in the hopper is NOT storage) combines with moisture to create "Fertilizer).  I'll bet however, after you pull all those bullets, you remember and don't do it again  ;D

Offline Charlie Bowdre

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2017, 06:04:15 AM »
ha going o be a long winter ;D

Cheers
Dutchie
"I'm too old to go soldiering any more , too stiff in the joints to ride point and too dam fat to wrestle drunks Any day they don't pat you on the face with a shovel is a good one"

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Offline River City John

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2017, 10:32:00 AM »
For what it's worth, I shoot Trail Boss exclusively. I hand dipper all my loads out of a ceramic dish which I have filled from the plastic bulk  5lb. jug. 50 rounds at a crack and then use a single stage.
Been working on the same jug for the last three years. After a session of re-loading the remaining powder goes back into the jug.
No squib problems, and so far powder is still good.


RCJ
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2017, 10:51:51 AM »

That's "Dinosaur" River City John ...... ahem. (snicker snicker)  ;D

Offline Baltimore Ed

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 10:53:15 AM »
I tried a can of Trail Boss and didn't like it. I prefer the Dot (red dot, clays, clay dot) powders for the majority of my reloading. I also leave the powder in my Dillon powder measure hoppers all the time. The caps of the Dillon measures fit very tight and I plug up the little hole too. But my reloading room is located IN my house, a 10x10 kitchen add on I built years ago so it is the same temp and humidity as the house and I run ac or heat 24-7. I wouldn't even try to set up a reloading area out in my shop, way too humid here in NC. Hope you figure out the problem, having to pull bullets is a pita, (I was given a 5 gal bucket of military ammunition that had been through a flood) it's a lot more fun to 'pull' them with your Colt.
"Give'em hell, Pike"
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Offline River City John

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2017, 11:08:37 AM »
That's "Dinosaur" River City John ...... ahem. (snicker snicker)  ;D

(humming to myself: "Everybody move, get on the floor, everybody do the Dinosaur!) ;D


RCJ
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"He who will not look backward with reverence, will not look forward with hope." - Edmund Burke
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Offline Charlie Bowdre

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2017, 11:36:49 AM »
Love it , seems like the older I get the more fun I have. Now don't have it as often ... I should say I have shot TB exclusively for over 10 years , never had a problem . That's why this is so perplexing . One good thing is that I have heard from a lot of great guys  and I thank you all

 Now I have to get into my gun room and start pulling rounds. ::)
Cheers
Dutchie
"I'm too old to go soldiering any more , too stiff in the joints to ride point and too dam fat to wrestle drunks Any day they don't pat you on the face with a shovel is a good one"

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Offline Roscoe

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2017, 08:24:24 AM »
It occurred to me that you might have had a batch of wet brass, depending upon how it was cleaned.

Offline Charlie Bowdre

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2017, 09:34:19 AM »
Good point I don’t normally wash my brass but to be honest it has been a while since I loaded these up. As well as the fact that I sometimes have troubles joe remembering my socks ......I don’t remember if these rounds were just tumbled or not
Thanks
"I'm too old to go soldiering any more , too stiff in the joints to ride point and too dam fat to wrestle drunks Any day they don't pat you on the face with a shovel is a good one"

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Offline Cholla Hill Tirador

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Re: Help Trail Boss Mystery
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2017, 05:55:06 PM »
  I have three powder measures on my bench and keep powder in them 24/7 day in, day out for the last 10 years. Same with two MEC shotshell loaders, which have had the same powders in them for years, only occasionally topped off. I’ve NEVER had powder “go bad”. My reloading setup is in an outbuilding. Unless you don’t cap the powder reservoir I think it’d be very difficult to have a meaningful amount of moisture get in the powder measure.  The only time I’ve ever had squib loads was in shotgun shells. I figured out it was due to my using a powder baffle in an effort to get more consistent powder drops.
  I’d bet the farm your problem has to do with a combination of the large flake, Cheerio-shaped powder and a progressive loader. About the only way to know for sure is to weigh loaded rounds and look for those that are markedly lighter than most, then pull them down. That may be difficult too since your powder charge is relatively light, but for sure a place to start.

 

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