Author Topic: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC  (Read 6855 times)

Offline Navy Six

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Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« on: August 15, 2017, 05:29:22 PM »
I have been shooting Hornady's .358-148 gr HBWCs in several Uberti 51/61 Navies with both Kirst and R&D conversion cylinders. Groups are good at Cowboy distances--last time on paper everything well under 2" at ten yards(17 grs of FFF O.E.). However, the factory bullets are covered with some type of waxy substance which I presume is their bullet lube. I normally remove(tediously) this substance and dip the bullet of the completed cartridge in melted Gatofeo lube. This week I didn't have time for the lube dip and shot the bullets as is, with no lube at all. Wow, what a mess in the barrel after 50 rounds. Took about three times the amount of wet patches to get the crud out and the residue had a different texture than normal blackpowder fouling.
 Anyway, my question is--does anyone have experience with a simple method for removing the wax coating from the Hornady bullets? My current approach--wiping down each bullet with a solvent rag--is taking way too long for the amount of shooting I'm doing. I realize Speer makes a similar bullet that doesn't have any coating, but good luck trying to find anybody that has them lately. I have a small dwindling supply of the Speer bullets and the Hornadys are what seem to be currently available.
 I do have two Rapine hollow base molds and those bullets shoot very satisfactorily, but casting enough from a single cavity mold is too slow as well.



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Offline pony express

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2017, 09:24:11 PM »
I never tried removing the lube from them. Perhaps slosh them around in a container of paint thinner? Lacquer thinner is pretty powerful stuff. What about hot water? I've heard of people boiling regular lube off of bullets, maybe that would work on the Hornady wax. Also, have you tried lust loading them as they come, then dipping them in your BP lube, wax and all?

Offline Noz

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 10:39:14 AM »
Cover a cookie sheet with paper towels stand bullets on their base, put them in the over for a while at a low temp. Lube will melt off and be absorbed by the paper towels.

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #3 on: Today at 05:00:07 AM »

Offline john boy

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 11:49:16 AM »


Pat, the bullets look like they are graphite coated in an unknown carrier
Found this on the Internet -
To remove graphite ...  Nothing unless you use hot, concentrated HNO3, then the surface will be oxidized to CO2 and the acid reduced to NO2. HClO4 will also oxidize graphite. Non-oxidizing acids will not affect graphite
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 10:17:37 AM »
I have a much simpler suggestion.  APP.  Yep.  APP.  Needs no lube.  None.  If you have a lube on the projectile, APP doesn't care.  APP doesn't foul consecutively.  Concurrently.  Each round fired removes the previous residue and leaves it's residue.  Very Very easy to clean after shooting.

Offline Good Troy

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2017, 10:20:34 AM »
I have a much simpler suggestion.  APP.  Yep.  APP.  Needs no lube.  None.  If you have a lube on the projectile, APP doesn't care.  APP doesn't foul consecutively.  Concurrently.  Each round fired removes the previous residue and leaves it's residue.  Very Very easy to clean after shooting.

Hmmm...maybe I should stop by Cabela's on the way home and get some APP for my 56-50 Spencer replica.  It fouls VERY quickly....sorry of the thread drift....
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Offline Navy Six

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 04:50:06 PM »
I am aware of the benefits of APP, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Twenty years of Cowboy matches have been shot exclusively with blackpowder, and I am dedicated to unlocking "the mysteries" of this stuff. My wife has finally started back shooting after a number of years absence due to surgeries/injuries and my ammo production will need to be increased even further. I load for too many calibers already(along with the casting and lube making) and this is the only factory bullet I use. Just trying to cut down on the time spent at this chore. Hope Speer gets back to producing their version of this bullet.

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Offline wildman1

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 05:22:36 AM »
If its a waxy substance just put them on a cookie sheet with several layers of newspaper under them, no need to stand them up, just dump em on it. Temp in oven just under 200 degrees. Should remove 99% of the crud (smokiless bullet lube). If that is slow or doesn't get it all up the temp 10 degrees.
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Offline Jefro

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2017, 04:31:57 PM »
Uhhh :-\, save those for smokeless and get some Big Lube bullets with proper lube ;) Ta Daaa!! :D
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Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 05:38:12 PM »
I am aware of the benefits of APP, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Twenty years of Cowboy matches have been shot exclusively with blackpowder, and I am dedicated to unlocking "the mysteries" of this stuff. My wife has finally started back shooting after a number of years absence due to surgeries/injuries and my ammo production will need to be increased even further. I load for too many calibers already(along with the casting and lube making) and this is the only factory bullet I use. Just trying to cut down on the time spent at this chore. Hope Speer gets back to producing their version of this bullet.



Ah My Good Navy Six -
Therein is the difficulty. Since nobody commercially sells a .38 Long Colt (.365) HBRN, Using a .38 (.357) HBWC bullet does make it easier, but is actually a bit of a kludge and the only ones available have "smokeless lube".

If one wishes to stay with real BP, then one will actually need to get a differrent bullet. If I might suggest,
going with .38 LC heal-based bullets would solve a number of issues!

The plusses are numerous:
They are available from a couple of sources, so you would not need to cast,
they actually fill the grooves better and are more accurate,
they "fit in " better with a BP Navy conversion
you can actually use .38 spcl brass

the only downside is crimping, which can be done either with a hand tool or a lee "factory crimp " die .
lubing can be done before or after loading by dipping.

hth
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Offline Dick Dastardly

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2017, 05:15:10 PM »
What Jefro said. . :)

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Offline Navy Six

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2017, 05:29:41 PM »
All my conversions retain the original, unlined (.375)barrel so a hollow base bullet is necessary. As far as I know DD sells 38 caliber Big Lube bullet molds that are suitable for a .358 bore.
 Professor Marvel, I have toyed with the idea of a 38LC heel base bullet but have not done so yet. I appreciate your observation on how this type of bullet "fits in" better with the BP Navy conversions and I agree.
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Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2017, 08:10:41 PM »
All my conversions retain the original, unlined (.375)barrel so a hollow base bullet is necessary. As far as I know DD sells 38 caliber Big Lube bullet molds that are suitable for a .358 bore.
 Professor Marvel, I have toyed with the idea of a 38LC heel base bullet but have not done so yet. I appreciate your observation on how this type of bullet "fits in" better with the BP Navy conversions and I agree.

My Dear Navy -
I myself am struggling with this very thing - I have obtained 2/3 of a box of commercial HBWC cartridges and box of .38 Long Colt ( a bit pricy for this cheapskate)  "to try" in my Pietta Navy ( wth Howell cylinder).

As you have found, getting  commercial HB .38 bullets of any sort are a bit of a problem!

For casting, HB molds are nearly impossible to find. My first thought was to just use my .375 Lee C&B conical mold, but unfortunately it does not create a small enough heal "as cast". A  "proper healed mold" is running nearly $100 - a bit steep for my blood, and quite a commitment without being able to get some examples "to try out".

perhaps we can trade hints, or at least commiserate....

yhs
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Offline Navy Six

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2017, 11:22:57 AM »
Professor Marvel, I was lucky enough to obtain two identical Rapine 150gr hollow base molds before they retired from business. They do shoot very accurately and cast beautifully but:
1) are single cavity and slow to cast in volume
2) grease grooves are thin and shallow. OK for occasional shooting but less than ideal for Cowboy matches
3) finished bullet is long(.741) and takes up a lot of space inside a 38LC case. This becomes somewhat critical when using either the R&D or Kirst cylinders as the cartridge OAL can compromise the powder capacity.
4) this will require further experimentation--GREAT!!--this is all fun as I am now retired and can spend the time at this! So, Professor, I do believe I will investigate the the heel base bullet situation.
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Offline Dick Dastardly

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2017, 12:49:54 PM »
FWIW, I've looked into hollow base bullet molds and the cost of production far outweighs the revenue from sales.  Tooling alone runs $900.00 and then the entire six cavity platform would have to be reworked.  So, sorry about that.  One Big Lube solution is to cast the Snakebite bullet with dead soft lead.  With a compressed charge of FFFg black powder it will obturate well enough to give good Cowboy Action accuracy.  Of course all that lube will keep the fouling soft so that it blows out with the following shot.

One solution for a good barrel diameter fit may be to use the Big Lube EPP-UG 36 mold.  They drop from the mold with driving bands of .382 inches and may lube/size to your 38 cal. gun.  You would want to lightly crimp just ahead of the forward driving band for a pocket safe round.

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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2017, 10:44:07 PM »
Just to toss a little useless trivia into the equation. 

I currently use the EPP-UG-36 bullet as my bullet of choice for Planesman.  Rifle of choice is an H&R Handy Buffalo Target in 38-55.  Works a treat.  I load em "as cast" out of the 38-55 over a full case of 2f APP (no lube needed).  Shoot like a laser at Planesman target distance.
I can't say what they do at longer ranges as I have never shot em onna pizza box to see.  They do righteously Klang the Planesman targets though.

All off the foregoing was to say I think the EPP-UG-36 is a dyno-might idea for the 38LC in a conversion.  Rather dandy in a 36 Cap Gun too. 

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2017, 08:40:00 AM »
What DD said!
I use as cast snakebite boolits in my 38 S&W breaktop and get good accuracy from it. Cast from dead soft lead they seem to swage up pretty good. Recovered bullets show deep rifling grooves on the slugs.
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Offline Crow Choker

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2017, 06:26:47 AM »
I'll 2nd Cuts post and third Dick D's. I cast soft lead Snakebites for my 38 Spec Richards/Mason using both Pearl Lube and SPG. Both work 'top shelf'. No leading, fouling, good cut rifling on shot bullets, accurate with FFF. Haven't tried em with SM, don't know if I will. Back in the day when I shot and loaded hollow base 38 wad cutters by the truck load (PPC/PCC- law enforcement), I never liked Hornadys bullet, much preferred Speers. Finally bought a bevel base Lyman DC wadcutter mold and had very good luck with it. The lead on those bullet company wad cutters isn't linotype hard, but not soft lead hard, which is best for black powder. Can't recall what the Brinnell Hardness averages on them is, I've mined em from ranges and mix them with linotype for hardcast bullets for SM firing rifles and handguns. Use a lead hardness tester to get right hardness needed for 1000+ velocity. Dick you just keep selling those Big Lubers, like em a lot, esp that Ol' Mav Dutchman.
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Offline Navy Six

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2017, 05:12:47 PM »
I may have just solved my own problem. I just remembered I clean the oil off my bullet molds with automotive brake cleaner in a spray can, and how good it works and how fast it dries. So I put 50 of the Hornadys in a metal collander with a metal drip pan underneath. A three second shot of the brake cleaner and I walked away for an hour--better do this outdoors. When I returned there was a whitish colored sludge in the bottom of the drip pan and the bullets were dry. Comparing one of these to an untouched factory bullet revealed the treated bullet was almost completely free of the tacky substance Hornady uses. I may as well stock up on brake cleaner as this process was quick and almost effortless.
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Offline Dick Dastardly

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Re: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2017, 04:31:02 PM »
My good friend Pukin' Dog shoots the Sankebite Greasewagons in his 51 open tops with conversion cylinders and loads 38s for them.  He has had good luck with those.  They seem to "bump up" and shoot just fine.  He seats them deep enough that he crimps on the ogive.

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