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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Barracks (Moderators: Delmonico, Pitspitr)  |  Topic: I'll be doing my own.... Mosin Nagant ? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: I'll be doing my own.... Mosin Nagant ?  (Read 1827 times)
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« on: July 08, 2017, 12:26:08 pm »


research ...but I want ask a few questions about the Mosin Nagant

I have a Nagant Pistol & just acquired a Original S&W Russian

the 91/30 Mosin Nagant ....Hex receiver is correct for GAF ...yes ?

Is there a load, that will NOT turn a Shoulder into mush ? and still be good to shoot ?

Anything, on a Hex receiver gun that should not be legal GAF.

I ask because there is a very nice factory referb at my FFL ...may be a bit over priced

So....what are they going for ?   I believe it is a TULA  ( Star)  
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pony express
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 03:47:15 pm »

M-2, the 91-30 with hex receiver is considered a replacement for the "Dragoon" model M-91, and is fine for GAF, as well as the original M-91 long rifle. For GAF match use, a proper size cast bullet with 10-12 grains of Trail Boss should work fine. I say proper size, because bore dimensions can vary some. I haven't worked much on jacketed loads for them(yet), but starting loads from the manuals should be ok. Also, look on the Hodgeon website for instructions for downloading H4895, they have done research on loading as low as 60% of max loads with it, and still performing well. But that's only H4895, NOT IMR4895.

Can't help on current prices, I've got 2 M-91 long rifles(Remington and New England Westinghouse) that were about $125 and 200,but that was yeaaaaarrrsss ago.
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 05:13:01 pm »

Thanks PE

This a very clean refurb....looks new    I did notice the butt has a replace toe* , it has been mitered in ( not the reglued chunk )
straight butt joint ( no pun intended  Smiley ) then the stock refinished
I'm not sure what species wood the stock is,  has graining like yellow pine  Huh very prominent.

It's hang tag say's  $395**.  I think it will go for less

* EDIT   looks like this is common....I see the same repair ?  on many gun featured on UTube

**  looking on GB this a ballpark price ...
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Pitspitr
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2017, 09:16:51 am »

Sounds like a good rifle. Hopefully Drydock will chime in as he and his son shoot Mosins a lot.
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2017, 10:16:55 am »

I hope so...


I think it is a Laminated stock.... differently a  TULA  ..I missed recording the date  Roll Eyes

Any reason the Laminated stock would preclude GAF use ?

Hex receiver

Interesting the grain aligns,  still there is that what appears to be a straight joint line ....

Shop is closed Sun. & Mon.  I'll have to look again


* Mosin.jpg (163.51 KB, 637x314 - viewed 31 times.)
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Drydock
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2017, 11:35:49 am »

That is how the stock came from the factory, the toe splice is common, it is a laminated stock. And that is a GAF legal rifle.  We use 12 grains of Trail Boss beneath the Lee 312-155 for a dandy GAF load.  40 grains IMR 4064 or 4166 under a 150 grain 311 spire point flat base works well for long range.

That is ballpark for a laminated stock 91/30.  Laminated is around +75-100 over a standard hardwood stock. Hex is +25. Bore condition determines a lot. If its a bright shiny bore its a decent deal as it stands.

Bayonets available at  https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/ltc-default.asp   Because you have to have a bayonet.  Right?
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Drydock
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2017, 12:07:22 pm »

http://www.mosinnagant.net/

http://7.62x54r.net/

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/How-Users-Of-One-Rifle-See-Themselves-And-Others.jpg

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm
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Drydock
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2017, 04:43:20 pm »

Be happy to post how to load the Nagant revolver round if interested.  Quite easy really.
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2017, 05:30:29 pm »

Sure, like to read it

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Drydock
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2017, 06:41:49 pm »

I thought of this because I'm loading a box of these today.

Ennways:  Lee dies, PRVI brass.  The only special thing you need is a Winchester 25-35 sizing die.  I found a Lee one on Ebay.  BTW, Winchester is making a run of 25-35 94s for 2018.  Midway is stocking all these dies right now.  These dies will also size and load 32-20 cases in a conventional manner should you wish, but they work just fine making Gas Seal rounds with the addition of the 25-35 die.

Lee 311-100 mold.  I use this bullet for both the Nagant, and the Tokarev round.  Size to .309.  .310 or greater will not chamber.  But most any 308-314 lead pistol bullet will work if properly sized.  

These are steel dies, so you will need to lube the cases.

-Size and prime.

-I charge with 3 grains Alliant American Select.  This runs 921 fps out of my Nagants.  The cases drop out of the gun with a tap of the finger on the case mouth at the front of the cylinder.  DO NOT USE TRAIL BOSS!  Tempting, but the pressure curve of TB flares the case mouth, and you end up beating the cases out of the cylinder.  Faster powders like AS or Bullseye are a must.  I lube with beeswax/olive oil, or sometimes Liquid Alox. No leading with either.

-Seat the bullet with the nose flush with the case mouth.  The die provided will do this just fine, once properly adjusted.

-Now, you need to grind a tenth or so off the base of the 23-35 sizing die.  You are using the shoulder of the die to put a conical nose on the case mouth.  Not a whole lot, just enough to ensure reliable chambering when you cycle the action.  This gentle cone also greatly extends case life.

That's it.  I load these on a Lee 4 hole turret.
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 12:35:22 pm »

Question arises...

PE wrote  ..."   proper size cast bullet with 10-12 grains of Trail Boss should work fine "


would a    .310  115 grain 32/20  on Mosin Nagant brass chamber ?



* rcb57942.jpg (11.39 KB, 300x300 - viewed 15 times.)

* th (1).jpg (22 KB, 267x300 - viewed 16 times.)

* th (2).jpg (10.66 KB, 247x186 - viewed 18 times.)
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Drydock
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 04:37:15 pm »

It should.  If the magazine interrupter is working the Mosin action is not at all finicky about feeding. 

So you got it?
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 04:56:40 pm »

Not yet..... they are closed Sun-Mon.,   I'm off Friday,  PTO 1st. chance I can go in,  armed with my new found research & help...

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Drydock
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 05:15:55 pm »

Ah darnit, I figgered that's how you got the pictures!   Grin
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pony express
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 05:37:16 pm »

The 32-20 bullet should work fine, but 10-12 gr Trailboss might exceed GAF velocities with the lighter bullet.
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2017, 10:33:22 pm »

OH ...

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Drydock
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2017, 11:07:07 pm »

I doubt it.  Going from 200 to 155 only netted me 80 fps or so.  Bet he'd still be well under 1500 fps  my 155s only run 1295. 
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« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2017, 04:46:45 pm »

That's good to know, I don't have a chronograph, so I had no idea how fast my TB loads were actually going, beyond the fact that they were at least above the speed of sound.
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« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 07:12:44 pm »

Dakota Ike suggested these

https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/bp-762x39-312-123gr-sp



* 20151001105129_00159762x39123grSP.jpg (13.3 KB, 500x500 - viewed 20 times.)
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Drydock
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2017, 07:31:32 pm »

Well, you can't use them for GAF skirmish shooting, and you can't push them to Milspec velocities for long range either.

 I use these for jacketed bullet shooting in my Mosins and 303 guns: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/282179/speer-hot-cor-bullets-303-caliber-77mm-japanese-311-diameter-150-grain-spitzer-box-of-100

Most any .311-314 cast bullet will work for our Skirmish loads. https://missouribullet.com/

We do not allow jacketed or plated bullets on skirmish targets.  Only lead or lead with gas checks or powder coated.  Our long range targets are AR500, so full power jacketed loads may be used with them.

http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=352&category=20&secondary=36&keywords=  this would be a good one and  easy on your shoulder.
 
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« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2017, 07:59:34 pm »

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-0%2B4294967208%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1

I wear one of these under my shirt these days.  Helps a lot!
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« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2017, 09:37:24 pm »

M2,for our "long range", you could try working up a load with one of these:

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-19785%2B4294940995%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1&userItemsPerPage=48

We only shoot to 300 yards, that's in 7.62X39 range, so a7.62X39 bullet at 23-2400fps should work, if they will shoot well from your particular rifle.
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« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 02:09:50 am »

Well, you can't use them for GAF skirmish shooting, and you can't push them to Milspec velocities for long range either.

 I use these for jacketed bullet shooting in my Mosins and 303 guns: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/282179/speer-hot-cor-bullets-303-caliber-77mm-japanese-311-diameter-150-grain-spitzer-box-of-100

Most any .311-314 cast bullet will work for our Skirmish loads. https://missouribullet.com/

We do not allow jacketed or plated bullets on skirmish targets.  Only lead or lead with gas checks or powder coated.  Our long range targets are AR500, so full power jacketed loads may be used with them.

http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=352&category=20&secondary=36&keywords=  this would be a good one and  easy on your shoulder.
 


Thanks...I'm  learning   

My reloading skills are in toddler stage,  one eye in the reloading manuals , one eye on the operation, and one eye toward KISS

Keep it Simple  Wink 

I'm Ok with BP , and I've embraced APP , .....  I have Trail Boss and I've have dabbled in Red Dot.... 

Slow,  fastidious , and careful .... I load a few at time.... 

Rotator cuff damage and Arthritis , tunes out any wish to shoot Milspec velocities .

What I need is (if I get the Mosin Nagant ) a mild recoil.... below legal 1500 FPS

I'm thinking 10 Grains TB , behind a .115- 123 grain   lead powder coated bullet.

 






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Drydock
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« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 09:12:23 am »

The Trail boss loads are just what you want then.   In a full length rifle, even the 200 grain bullets kick like a .22.    If you have not yet, please read this:  https://web.archive.org/web/20080603022241/http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles2008/trailbosskiss/index.asp
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« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 09:28:29 am »

Exactingly,  Smiley what I needed ...THANKKKKKK YOU !


I have a stash of these

32-20 Hi-Tek
.313 Diameter
120 Grain RNFP
Brinell 18
For Lever Guns
Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating
Price per box of 500
Price: $40.50
 
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Barracks (Moderators: Delmonico, Pitspitr)  |  Topic: I'll be doing my own.... Mosin Nagant ? « previous next »
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