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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Barracks (Moderators: Delmonico, Pitspitr)  |  Topic: Snyder Carbine 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Bat 2919
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« on: July 04, 2017, 12:25:33 am »


Snyder Carbine with an unknown/unmet reserve on Guns America for those of you who are into self abuse.

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14467328
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G Man / Bat Masterson
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Niederlander
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2017, 09:40:33 am »

Looks pretty cool, but I'd hate to see what the reserve is.
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 11:02:19 pm »

So much wrong here ...  Undecided

Correct spelling is "Snider" ... And if a seller doesn't even know that, you can be sure they don'f know much ... Including the fact that the "RCMP" (which did not come into existence until after WWI) certainly never used Sniders.  (Their predecessors, the North West Mounted Police did ...)

I can say with absolute certainty that this is NOT a NWMP carbine,  because the sling ring on the bottom of the buttstock at the rear of the triggerguard tang is a sure sign that this carbine was in Portuguse service, one of a number supplied to Portugal by Britain ... only Portugal had their carbines configured this way ... and the unit markings on the buttplate tang are definitely Portuguese.

Even if this were not a Portuguese-issue carbine, one of the most common spurious claims regarding Snider cavalry carbines is that they "could" have served with the NWMP ... But the fact is that of tens of thousands of such carbines made, fewer than 400 were in Mounted Police service ... And there are no recorded instances of the NWMP putting any distinguishing mark on any of them.
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Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
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Niederlander
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 05:56:38 am »

You mean people would claim something was used by the RCMP when it's not true?!  Can they DO that?!!  Still a pretty nice carbine, though.
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Trailrider
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 01:52:53 pm »

"A Snider squibbed in the forest,
   Someone laughed and fled,
 And the men of the First Shikari,
   Picked up their subaltern, dead!
 Wi' a neat blue 'ole in 'is fore'ead,
  And the back blown out of 'is 'ead!" - Rudyard Kipling  Shocked

Pavlovian response whenever I hear the term, "Snider"!  Wink
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 04:15:19 pm »

About 150 serial numbers of NWMP Snider carbines are listed in Arms and Accoutrements of the Mounter Police, 1982, Phillips & Klancher. That leaves about 250 unascertained.

Our RattlesnakeJack is a tremendous resourse.
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 04:28:55 pm »

About 150 serial numbers of NWMP Snider carbines are listed in Arms and Accoutrements of the Mounter Police, 1982, Phillips & Klancher. That leaves about 250 unascertained.

Our RattlesnakeJack is a tremendous resourse.

Yes he is!
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 05:17:27 pm »

I am always bemused (and rather annoyed) when I see any suggestion that a Snider cavalry carbine "could" be NWMP-issue, often coupled with a claim that is because it is in the "known range" of NWMP serial numbers. (This is a common assertion by Joe Salter.)  The list of known numbers Sir Charles refers to (which actually includes only 115 carbines and 10 Snider rifles) covers a span from 75 to 9727 with lots of gaps in between - so the "known range" of the 115 recrded serial numbers (of an actual total of 352 NWMP carbines) is arguably 1 to 9,999 if one recognizes that unknown numbers could precede or follow the first and last known numbers!

I have also seen suggestions that cavalry carbines were numbered 1 to 10,000 (or 9,999) and then the numbering started over, which would complicate things even further!
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Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/
Lord Eoin MacKenzie
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 11:58:04 am »

In the Single shot exchange,  There is a snider conversion carbine, listed for $550.   I called and he still has the carbine available. his name is Bill and his number is 719 266 0280.   I let him know I was letting y'all  be notified.
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Jake C
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 01:30:41 pm »

I am always bemused (and rather annoyed) when I see any suggestion that a Snider cavalry carbine "could" be NWMP-issue, often coupled with a claim that is because it is in the "known range" of NWMP serial numbers. (This is a common assertion by Joe Salter.)  The list of known numbers Sir Charles refers to (which actually includes only 115 carbines and 10 Snider rifles) covers a span from 75 to 9727 with lots of gaps in between - so the "known range" of the 115 recrded serial numbers (of an actual total of 352 NWMP carbines) is arguably 1 to 9,999 if one recognizes that unknown numbers could precede or follow the first and last known numbers!

I have also seen suggestions that cavalry carbines were numbered 1 to 10,000 (or 9,999) and then the numbering started over, which would complicate things even further!

Howdy all,

Rattlesnake, have a question for you. What was the most common way for Sniders to come to North America in general, and the U.S. in particular? I ask because I have a Snider carbine that I just assumed had probably been in Canada and then came across the border somehow. Were Snider heavily sold on the civilian market here in the United States?

Thanks for enlightening me. I just don't know too much about them (other than they're GREAT fun to shoot) and you're definitely the fellow to ask.
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 05:23:23 pm »

In the Single shot exchange,  There is a snider conversion carbine, listed for $550.   I called and he still has the carbine available. his name is Bill and his number is 719 266 0280.   I let him know I was letting y'all  be notified.

That price suggests strongly to me that this is likely a "cadet carbine" (made during the 20th century by cutting down old common infantry rifles to resemble cavalry carbines.)  See my more detailed caution in the separate thread started by Lord E.
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Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 05:42:50 pm »

Rattlesnake, have a question for you. In general, what was the most common way for Sniders to come to North America in general, and the U.S. in particular? I ask because I have a Snider carbine that I just assumed had probably been in Canada and then came across the border somehow. Were Snider heavily sold on the civilian market here in the United States?

Most Sniders in North America, I believe, are from Canadian military service.  Canada's Militia was fully re-armed with Sniders by the end of 1867 but, unlike the British army and other Empire forces, retained them as our primary-issue military longarms until 1896-7, when our first "long Lee-Enfield" rifles were acquired, and some units did not have their Sniders replaced until as late as 1905.  The Snider-Enfield is accordingly the quintessential Dominion of Canada military rifle of the 19th century. I am out of town, away from my library, at present, but if memory serves Canada acquired 80,000 or more Sniders.  By the time they had been fully replaced by repeating rifles they were so obsolete that Canada had a difficult time disposing of them, and most ended up in the civilian surplus market. 
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Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/
Jake C
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2017, 06:14:54 am »

Most Sniders in North America, I believe, are from Canadian military service.  Canada's Militia was fully re-armed with Sniders by the end of 1867 but, unlike the British army and other Empire forces, retained them as our primary-issue military longarms until 1896-7, when our first "long Lee-Enfield" rifles were acquired, and some units did not have their Sniders replaced until as late as 1905.  The Snider-Enfield is accordingly the quintessential Dominion of Canada military rifle of the 19th century. I am out of town, away from my library, at present, but if memory serves Canada acquired 80,000 or more Sniders.  By the time they had been fully replaced by repeating rifles they were so obsolete that Canada had a difficult time disposing of them, and most ended up in the civilian surplus market. 

Oh wow, way more than I thought then. Thank you for your time! The Snider might be my favorite long gun I own. It's just as cool as can be  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2017, 04:35:48 pm »

Lots of info on the world wild web; See if you can spot a photo of Our Pard RSJ.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Canadian+snider+cadet+carbine&tbm=isch&imgil=QmuJkkQK-2N1kM%253A%253BabKk23Kg9VpLkM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.victorianwars.com%25252Fviewtopic.php%25253Ff%2525253D21%25252526t%2525253D7493&source=iu&pf=m&fir=QmuJkkQK-2N1kM%253A%252CabKk23Kg9VpLkM%252C_&usg=__GgxtEeyWgWWTvrzh7Ij52Qb6mLg%3D&biw=972&bih=558&ved=0ahUKEwjX-ueW0frUAhVR5GMKHVU7DEgQyjcIZw&ei=NE9hWdeQO9HIjwPV9rDABA#imgrc=QmuJkkQK-2N1kM:
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2017, 09:52:58 pm »

As you may notice from the same profile photo, I am "GrantRCanada" posting in the thread Sir Charles linked to.

 Wink
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Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/
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