Greetings OSB -
Prof, don't fret, I have no problem with a polite discussion. I'm not trying to attack anyone, just trying to understand.
No worries, mate! as a philosophical discussion, I will continue, :-)
and address each of your points.
BTW Go to their website and you see these guys are actually doing full-uniform War Games.
Note: WAR GAMES.
They make no mention of insurance or referees or safety procedures or any real organization.
they are operating on remote private property , and I saw no mention of informing neighbors or LEO's.
they pride themselves on their realism.
Their "toys" are indistinguishable from live weapons.
If these folks
showed up on one of the 40-100 acre properties nearby me and had not informed me i would on the phone to
the Law Dogs in a heartbeat.
Even Re-enactors do not allow pointing "blank firing weapons" at another person, but these are "War Games".
You've reinforced your arguments, but I think the problem is that I'm just not getting what your conclusion is. The impression that I got is that you're arguing that this airsoft event shouldn't d happen
I don't care if they run it or not. It's up to them. I will just choose not to play.
BUT the OP posted here on CAS City ( a totally different game) and literally asked for input and if we wanted to play.
That opened the door and I am happy to point out all the potential problems that they seem to be ignoring.
you're arguing ..... because of inherent risks, namely that people will make a mistake and kill someone because they may confuse the airsoft guns for the real thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Not correct.
My first point is about whether they have "appropriate" safety precautions, training and planning.
If they are just saying "oh yeah we are good", that doesn't cut it ; I have reviewed and critiqued too many badly thought out projects.
The second point is RULE 1:
"never point any weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot"not ANY projectile weapon.
Where does one draw the line?
paintball seems to be ok to most folks
BB guns and Pellet Guns are not OK to most folks.
There is a line that "airsoft " is crossing - especially due to "realism" and also I see a lot of airsofters are actively working
to increase power and range .
If that is in fact the point you're making, then my slippery slope is that you shouldn't be involved in CAS/SASS/NCOWS etc because the risks there are dramatically higher.
I disagree due to the following:
The SASS/ CAS sports have well thought out rules and regs, on paper, everybody has to read and abide and sign off on them.
The SASS/ CAS sports have numerous R.O. as well as everybody else watching out that all weapons are pointed downrange
The SASS/ CAS sports are run on safe ranges, well known to the locals and the LEO's
The SASS/ CAS sports have insurance
The SASS/ CAS sports have real first responders /EMTS onsite or instantly available
The SASS/ CAS sports
DO NOT allow pointing ANY weapon at another person.( are ye seeing a theme here? LOL )
In order for someone to accidentally murder another airsoft player, they'd have to bring a real gun to the event. Why would they? It's an airsoft game, no real guns need to be involved.
People do bring real firearms . It happens at many events. Especially at such very rural forrested events, where they are camping and cooking. Wanna face a bear with your airsoft weapon?
Usually they are "stowed" but mistakes happen.
A plan to reduce such mistakes should be in place.
CAS has range officers that check firearms to make sure they safe, why couldn't the same be done at an airsoft event?
As I pointed out, it could be done, but I do not see any plan in place for it to happen. Also, the number of Referees/ Safety officers
would need to be pretty large. Check out the Law Enforcement and Miliary training programs.
How many CAS shooters get killed by police because they're using real guns?
Straw man arguement.
SASS/ CAS events are on official ranges, well advertised and with local official approval. Not so these airsoft events.
For that matter, how often does it happen to airsoft players; should a single incident be enough to force airsoft to be banned? What about 50? What about 500? If you agree that at some point the risks require rules, do those same rules not apply to actual guns? If not, why not?
Not relevant to this discussion, that is literally another "straw man" arguement.
We are talking about critiquing his plans and how to make his event safe, not about banning it.
And, they are pointing their weapons at each other . We don't .
Please understand, I'm not berating you, nor am I trying to even persuade you. I'm asking honest questions to try and understand where you're coming from, because I'm genuinely confused why people who participate in a sport using real firearms would be concerned over the theoretical risks of using fake firearms?
Once again,
- they don't mention enough prior forethought
- they don't mention enough planning
- and my personal favorite " never point a weapon at anything you don;t intend to shoot"
Even Bill Jordan and Jeff Cooper disuaded people from shooting each at other with "wax loads"
Here's my take: Yes, there's some risk involved, as with any other activity. Anyone who participates needs to know the rules, and sign something saying they accept responsibility for those risks. If you're not comfortable with the risks, don't participate.
Yup, I plan not to, but for philosophical reasons, not due to risks.
I apply these same rules to pretty much everything, I suppose because I'm a bit more libertarian when it comes to personal responsibility. Not to say anyone else needs to agree with me, but I would like to understand why they don't, because maybe I'm wrong and need to consider it more. Happens all the time.
I actually agree you with "in general" - personal responsibilty has fallen by the wayside.
I personally disagree with "certain" SASS rules but adhere to them whilst playing "their game" .
On the other end of the spectrum, the one time I played paintball in my callow and distant youth, a couple of players got ejected.
A group showed up calling themselves a "squad" - They were lierally "Marine Wannabes" full surplus equip, etc. each had several combat knives, and rifles in their truck rifle racks. Got told to leave their knives in the vehilces.
During the game , one got all bent out of shape over a referee call. He reached for his knife sheath ( empty).
He got ejected, and escorted from the site by the sheriff. When I discussed it with the staff, they said they had seen it before, and were ready for "problems".
The paintball staff saw trouble when the "squad" showed up and started posturing, so they were ready. The staff seemed to have a "Baroom Bouncer" sense for trouble, they had plenty of staff, plenty of referees and the sheriff was already informed and patrolling nearby.
Soooo, yeah. My point is to think things through, be aware of and ready for "problems".
My Warnings and discussion based on prior experience , not just blowing smoke out my butt. LOL .
yhs
prof ( waxing philosophical ) marvel