Author Topic: which caliber for open top  (Read 16268 times)

Offline griffith

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2017, 04:49:02 PM »
     Cimarron lists two 44 guns. The first is 44special/Colt/Russian. The other is 44Colt/Russian.

                         Griffith

Offline Crow Choker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1102
  • River Banker Extraordinaire
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 36
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2017, 05:19:10 PM »
From what I've seen of Uberti's offerings from Taylor and Cimarron, no. No Open Top chambered only in 44 Russian. Cimarron does offer a brass gripped Navy size Open Top with one of the chambering's available in 44 Russian/44 Colt. Uberti make's a Schofield Russian breaktop chambered in 44 Russian, that is the only one I know of, pricey though.
 My OT chambered in 44 Spec only gets 44 Colt black powder loads anymore, but never was concerned about getting any 44 Special smokeless loadings used for modern guns in it as I had case management, ie loaded only loads for the 44 Ruger Blkhawk in specific brand brass, as I did for the Open Top smokeless loads. All 44 Colt cases were loaded with black only and were destined for the Uberti Open Top.
 A Open Top Uberti marked 44 Colt isn't going to be less in value because originals were not, because your not dealing with an original anyway. The repro Open Tops aren't 100% accurate anyway, but I don't really care, it's nice to have them available, if not you'd have to shell out 20-30 grand for an original and wouldn't be safe to shoot anyway. I'd make a note if you purchase a OT about what it can and cannot shoot for your heirs, in fact I did so pretty much for all my firearms as to value, what they are, any sentimental value, what they shoot--and I plan on being around another 25-30 years.

 :-[ :-[Added after Abilene's post---OOOOOPPPPPPS'! Reference to Abilene's post below, I didn't type response accurately and didn't  proofread properly. I've got chocolate on my face. Made correction to my original posting. Thanks Abilene for bringing to attention. ;D ;D
Darksider-1911 Shooter-BOLD Chambers-RATS-SCORRS-STORM-1860 Henry(1866)-Colt Handgun Lover an' Fan-NRA-"RiverRat"-Conservative American Patriot and Former Keeper & Enforcer of the Law an' Proud of Being Both! >oo

Offline Abilene

  • CAS-L Ghost Rider
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4672
    • Abilene's CAS Pages
  • SASS #: 27489
  • NCOWS #: 3958
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1181
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2017, 05:44:49 PM »
Malamute,
Cimarron in the beginning of the OT's had one chambered in .44 Russian, but not for a number of years now.  Even a gun marked .44 Colt will have a 90% or more chance of having a .44 spcl cylinder. 

The p/n of the .44 Russian cylinder is  901005.  You could always check with VTIgunparts.com or Cimarron to see if they have one.  Not real likely but you never know.

As for the steel Navy gripframe, I'm not sure what Crow Choker is thinking of but the OT's only come with steel army or brass Navy.  Now, you can always bolt a Model P / Cattleman gripframe and grip to the OT.  You would need the wood grip for that gripframe, as the Navy grip is similar in size but has some different curves and they are not compatible.

Advertising

  • Guest
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #23 on: Today at 09:21:16 AM »

Offline Malamute

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2017, 10:59:29 PM »
 Thanks for the comments guys.

 I'll ask around and see if Cimarron or anyone else has cylinders that may be Russian chambered only.

 My reluctance with a 44 Colt marking isn't about the guns perceived originality (really doesn't concern me), but that its being used on a gun that's chambered and bored completely differently than its original iteration and dimensional data may suggest. I think it makes no sense to use the designation and I choose not to further the confusion for anyone that may have my gun one day. 44 Russian. One possible meaning. Ever. :)

 Any info I may wish to leave behind about what loads to shoot in my guns when I'm gone may not find its way along with the gun. My experience suggests all anyone is likely to get is the gun, nothing else about it. I definitely wouldn't trust that only certain loads/headstamps would be shot in certain guns and not in others (Oh, since you have that 44 of ol Malamutes, take a few boxes of ammo for it too....). This is also why I wont own any gun chambered in 45 Colt that wont handle 325 gr/1250 fps loads that I use up on the mountain.

Offline Marshal Deadwood

  • SHOOTER FOR HIRE
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1382
    • Home of the Plainsmen
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2017, 12:18:11 PM »
.44 Colt. It is one fine round.

Offline Coffinmaker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 7605
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 125
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2017, 08:45:59 PM »
Malamute,
I certainly understand your concerns.  However.  Your not going to find an "Idiot Proof" Open Top.  When Abilene mentions the "early" Open Tops being chambered in 44 Russian, we are talking about around 15 years ago.  Your chances are better at winning the lottery.  For the most part, the more current build of .44 Open Top, regardless of markings, are chambered for 44 Special.  It's a cost effectiveness thing.  A single set of chambering cutters and finish reamers.  One size fits all.  Although in the past, there have also been some Open Tops marked 44 Colt that would not accept 44 Special cartridges. 

If your primary concern is someone, in the future "may" stuff a 44 Special case, loaded to 44 Mag performance in your old Open Top, then I would suggest you pass on the acquisition of an Open Top.  Similarly, your 45 ammunition is only safe in an Original Ruger.  Understanding, once your unavailable to shout "don't do that" someone may well stuff one or more of your 45 cartridges in a Colt or a Reproduction there of, and blow it to smithereens.

Navy 45, we're a lighthouse, Your Call  (Navy 45 demanded the approaching lights "change course" while refusing to change theirs.

Coffinmaker

Offline Malamute

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2017, 08:31:21 PM »
 Valid points.

  I cant save the world, though would like it if I could keep my little corner of it as carefree and simple as possible, as regards having potential mishaps with my guns. (Id like a trapdoor, but choose not to have one unless its a 50-70 because I load bear class loads in the 45-70 1886, so...no 45-70 trapdoor is my choice) The discussion has given me much more information to go on, I understand the odds of finding a 44 Russian only capable gun to be pretty low. If I stumble across a gun that's 44 Russian, I'll understand how unusual it is and endeavor to act accordingly. We cant control everything that happens after were gone, Ive seen several instances of people having a gun and knowing very little about it after inheriting it or getting it from someone that did. Id just hope that fairly well informed folks end up with my stuff, but it doesn't always work out that way unfortunately.

Offline Major 2

  • "Still running against the wind"
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 15831
  • NCOWS #: 3032
  • GAF #: 785
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 416
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2017, 06:29:21 AM »
Best steer clear of a 38 then as well, those +P critical defense might keep you in worry mode....

"We cant control everything that happens after were gone, Ive seen several instances of people having a gun and knowing very little about it after inheriting it or getting it from someone that did. Id just hope that fairly well informed folks end up with my stuff, but it doesn't always work out that way unfortunately"

Perhaps, Paint Ball ...but avoid the permanent ink models , less we color someone's future indelibly  ;D

when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Jake C

  • Department of the Atlantic, GAF # 834
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 579
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2017, 07:49:52 AM »
If you're that concerned about it, just gut a non-firing replica for future generations to look at and handle. Just my 2 cents (probably worth less than that).
Win with ability, not with numbers.- Alexander Suvorov, Russian Field Marshal, 1729-1800

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

  • THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 6199
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 396
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2017, 09:44:08 AM »
Best steer clear of a 38 then as well, those +P critical defense might keep you in worry mode....

"We cant control everything that happens after were gone, Ive seen several instances of people having a gun and knowing very little about it after inheriting it or getting it from someone that did. Id just hope that fairly well informed folks end up with my stuff, but it doesn't always work out that way unfortunately"

Perhaps, Paint Ball ...but avoid the permanent ink models , less we color someone's future indelibly  ;D

Haha! Leave an indelible impression! :D
NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

Offline Malamute

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2017, 01:35:30 PM »
Best steer clear of a 38 then as well, those +P critical defense might keep you in worry mode....

"We cant control everything that happens after were gone, Ive seen several instances of people having a gun and knowing very little about it after inheriting it or getting it from someone that did. Id just hope that fairly well informed folks end up with my stuff, but it doesn't always work out that way unfortunately"

Perhaps, Paint Ball ...but avoid the permanent ink models , less we color someone's future indelibly  ;D



 The 38 +p would probably not be that much of an issue, though a 38 isn't really what I was looking for in any event. Id be a bit concerned with the 17 gr/2400 250 gr Lyman 44 spl loads in an open top though. It was considered "normal" in manuals for a while (up through the 50s anyway), when Colt SAAs and Smith large frame 44 spls were all that were commonly encountered in the chambering.

 I'll have to consider the paintball and replica guns. No doubt theyd be safer. I agree, the permanent ink would be dangerous. :D

Offline Crow Choker

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1102
  • River Banker Extraordinaire
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 36
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2017, 08:54:30 PM »
Guess if everybody sat around and worried what heirs or whoever gained any of our earthly possessions would do with them, well life would be just one 'worry wart'.
Darksider-1911 Shooter-BOLD Chambers-RATS-SCORRS-STORM-1860 Henry(1866)-Colt Handgun Lover an' Fan-NRA-"RiverRat"-Conservative American Patriot and Former Keeper & Enforcer of the Law an' Proud of Being Both! >oo

Offline Tuolumne Lawman

  • CAS-L Ghost Rider
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2798
  • Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 46
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2017, 10:21:39 PM »
I vote .45 Colt or Schofield.  I have an 1860 Henry in .45 Colt, and I just ordered another 1872 Open Top in .45 Colt.  I duplicate the .44 Henry flat round with a 200 grain bullet in a Schofield case, loaded with either 27 grains volume BP/Sub or 5 grains Trail Boss.  1872 Open Tops were designed to be a companion revolver for the 1860 Henry and 1866 Winchesters.
TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators

Offline Shenandoah

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 162
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2017, 10:31:43 AM »
I have a 44 Colt/44 Russian marked Cimarron OT. It is the Navy grip model. I have no idea if it will accept 44 Spl rounds, I may try it tonight to see.

I shoot 44 Russian rounds for it and it is a lot of fun to shoot.

My vote is for the 44.   

Offline Tuolumne Lawman

  • CAS-L Ghost Rider
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2798
  • Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 46
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2017, 06:23:25 PM »
Richards and Richards-Mason 1860s should be in .44 Colt/44 Special. 1872 open tops should be in what ever caliber your 1860 Henry 0r 1866 Winchester is in:  38, 44-40. or 45 Colt/Schofield.  I have a henry in .45. so I laod a 200 grain bullet at about 1150 FPS from it in a .45 Schofield case.  My 1872s are .45 Colt/Schofield.
TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators

Offline Rebel Dave

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 131
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2017, 09:46:38 PM »
My 1872 Open top with 5 1/2 in bbl.,  will  chamber .44 Russian, 44 colt , and empty .44 spec cases (i havn't loaded any special carts yet).
Their is a lot of space still in the cylinder with the empties

Its only calibre mark is .44 cal.,  on the left side of frame under the cylinder. I think it was made in 2008. Its hard to tell cause only half of the letters are visible. I havn't shot it a lot yet.  I'm waiting for the weather to come around to more be  likeable.

Rebel Dave 

Offline Shenandoah

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 162
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2017, 05:34:08 PM »
I was incorrect on my open top markings. Although I have shot only 44 Russian cartridges, it is marked 44 Special.

Gotta learn to read the small print.

Offline Graveyard Jack

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 668
  • aka CraigC
    • Graveyard Jack's Custom Sixgun Leather
  • SASS #: 81,827
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 88
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2017, 03:47:13 PM »
Definitely .44Colt for me!

My Open Top has a .44Colt chamber. My Richards Type II has a .44Special chamber. Both are marked ".44 Colt".

SASS #81,827

Offline griffith

  • Active citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2017, 10:14:49 PM »
     Well, I got my open top navy a few days ago. I wanted to get .44 caliber but Cimarron said they wouldn't have any until the end of the year so I got a .38. It's a beautiful pistol and has a really nice trigger.

     I have a Frank James rig on the way from David Carrico.

     I'm looking forward to trying both of them out.

Offline Coal Creek Griff

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2078
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 633
Re: which caliber for open top
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2017, 10:35:32 PM »
You'll enjoy it!  That's a great choice of leather too.

CC Griff
Manager, WT Ranch--Coal Creek Division

BOLD #921
BOSS #196
1860 Henry Rifle Shooter #173
SSS #573

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk

© 1995 - 2023 CAScity.com