Stretching A Hand

[Navy Six]

I recently fitted Kirst cylinders to a pair of new, unfired Uberti 1860 Armies. In both cases, the hand seemed a trifle short as when cocking very slowly(cylinder stops a hair short of lockup), but any type of normal cocking assures full carry-up and lockup.
Anyway, I attempted to stretch one of the hands using a variety of punches. I ended up with a mess that I was too embarrassed to put back in the gun. I ordered a new hand, finished the project and am happy with the results.
My question is, what type of punch is best suited to this and where is the best place to srtike the hand in order to stretch it. Or is there a better method? I plan on a few more similar projects and if the hands are just long enough to work now, I assume some wear in the future may cause a problem. By the way, I took care of the Uberti "short arbor" situation first before starting the project by filling the arbor hole in the barrell so it bottoms out and fitted the wedge. Thanks for any help.

[Pettifogger]

I'll tell you how i do it.  Others may do it differently.  I don't use a punch.  I use drill rod about 1/8" in diameter.  This is not critical.  You put the drill rod on its side and place it about half-way between the top and bottom of the hand.  The hand must be on a hard flat surface.  Give the drill rod a good smack and it will make a little concave in the metal.  Test the fit it do it again if necessary.  What I have been doing lately so I can control things better is to put the hand and drill rod in a hydralic press and slowly stretch it.  You cannot do this on a Ruger pawl as they are hardened.  The hands in the Italian C&Bs are pretty soft.  After the hand is stretched I put a hammer stop in to keep the hand from getting battered again.  The C&B hands have only one tooth.  It is often difficult, if not impossible, to get perfect timing with the conversion cylinders.  The factory "conversions" use a two tooth hand.

I just ran out in the garage to see what I could find real quick.  The hand in this photo is obviously a two tooth hand.  I just used it for a quick photo.  But this shows the orientation of the parts.

[Navy Six]

Thanks, Pettifogger! Appreciate you taking time to post a picture and description. Your method looks a lot better than what I was trying to do with a punch.
One problem I didn't mention was the fact that the hand was also contacting the arbor on both guns as you pulled back on the hammer . There was almost no relief cut at the arbor(compared to older Ubertis and Piettas) and that restricted the amount of travel the hand could go forward and up.Took several hours of work with small files to relieve the arbor sufficiently but it helped the hand move that little bit extra travel needed for the 5 shot conversion cylinder.

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[Coffinmaker]

Just lug a Walker around one handed for a day.  That'll stretch yer hand (and arm) just fine 

Coffinmaker

PS:  Another absolutely "no contribution" post for the OP

[Navy Six]

No Walkers, Coffinmaker, but I'm waiting on conversion cylinders on a pair of Dragoons. Will that qualify?

[Coffinmaker]

Most certainly.  Almost exactly the same effect. 

Coffinmaker

[Jimeast]

I am in the process of fitting a kirst to an 1860 Uberti.  The original hand was quite short for the Kirst cylinder.  I bought a hand from Taylors or VTI (not sure) and it was quite a bit longer in it's natural (unfitted state)  Turned out to be a very close fit to the new required length.  It looks like the drill bit method can increase the length quite sufficiently for most situations, but a new hand can also offer a significantly longer starting point when more length is needed

Due to several other operations I could not easily do, I ended up sending it to Hoof Hearted to finish, so I can't comment on final fit of the hand yet. My Kirst cylinder is chambered for a 44 heel base with a pietta sized cylinder that is a little longer than an Uberti sized cylinder to allow for a longer cartridge (at least that's the feedback from Hoof Hearted as I remember it)  

The operation that gave me the biggest reason to send things to Hoof, is the Forcing cone end of barrel needs shortening and I was not able to easily construct a jig in my wood shop to confidently stone it down and get the perpendicularity needed.  I gave it a reasonable try and decided getting a professional on the job was in order before I fudged things up.

[Baltimore Ed]

My Mk 6 Webley revolver has a worn hand or pawl causing it to shave bullets. I stopped shooting t it after I realized it. Anybody have a trick for an old  Webley? Would the rod technique work?

[OD#3]

I tried to stretch a Webley hand once using blunted chisels.  I ruined two chisels, and a sliver of steel that flew off stuck into the thumb of my assistant.  That Webley hand was VERY hard, and it made me wonder if Webley hands actually ever wear out, or if the hands just wear the ratchets on the cylinder out, and we just think that the hand has worn down.  I pounded on that pretty hard and never left a mark.  I think it would break before it stretched.  I think you'd have to anneal it first and then reharden it after the stretching with something like Kasenit or Cherry Red.