Load data for the open top revolver

[Rabbit]

Hello Forum.
I picked up a used 1872 open top revolver chambered in .44 Colt. I made the modification recommended by Larsen E. Pettifogger about lengthening the arbor, I can put a feeler gauge at the top and bottom of the barrel and the gap between the cylinder is the same at both locations.

I am interested in some loading information. I have loaded .44 Russian loads, 22 grains of FF black powder behind a 212 grain Lyman cast bullet, this load shoots just a little to the left for me, but a good load. I want to try some more loads. I have picked up 100 cases of .44 Colt brass and I would like to try the old .44 special load, 22.5 grains of black powder behind a 250 grain cast lead bullet. My concern is that this load might be to strong for this revolver.

I called Hodgdon about their load of Clays behind a 240 lead bullet, could I start with the start load and stay away from the max load using my 250 grain lead bullet? I was advised not to do this, I was told Clays can increase pressure rapidly and also, the conversion revolvers were weak. Has anyone had experience with this load, the black powder load (22.5-26 grains of BP) using a 250 grain bullet and black powder in the 1872 conversion? I am not interested in damaging my revolver, but I would like to try the heaver bullet. 10 grains seems like a small difference, but I am hoping someone has tried this before, and can share their experience.

[Crow Choker]

I've had my OT, which is chambered for 44 Spec since 2008. The first several years I had it, I loaded and shot 200-240 grain wheel weight lead cast bullets using Titegroup (which is an excellent smokeless powder) and Trail Boss (also good) in 44 Spec. I also loaded and shot 44 Colt, starting out with 25 grains of Goex FFF using a softer lead Lee cast bullet, but then switched to using 25-26 grains of Goex FF using a Mav Dutchman 200 grain soft lead bullet. Kept all smokeless in 44 Spec and black in 44 Colt brass. Much of what I read stated a "more harmonious outcome" could result using FF over FFF in a gun such as the OT. Good accuracy with this load, not a hard load on the gun or excessive recoil. After the first several years I quit shooting 44 Spec smokeless and just shoot the 44 Colt FF black in it and a Richards II. I have loaded and shot 44 Spec using the Mav Dutch and FF black, works ok, but no real advantage in target shooting.

 You want to stay with the milder loads with the Open Top/Conversion style Colts when using smokeless and not use any powders or grain weights that develop high peak pressures rapidly as Hodgon advised. I've never used Clays in any of my revolvers, other than early loading of 44 Spec using Titegroup and TrailBoss, I have used others in the same general burn rate as Clays such as Red Dot, Win 231, Unique, 700X, PB, and  HP38, but these are just loaded and shot in top strap modern day revolvers such as Rugers. Have used them in calibers such as 45 Colt, 38/357, 44 Spec, and in 45 acp(1911 Colt). I've been going to cast some 240 grain soft lead bullets in the Lyman mold I have and load them in 44 Colt brass using FF and try them in the Open Top and Richards II, but haven't done so yet. Did Hodgon say not to even use the milder start load with the OT?  The open top frame is weaker than the top strap version, could be they don't want reloaders to get carried away with loads that result in firearm damage and shooter injury-the liability thing.

[Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE to Crow Choker.

I've shot and worked on Open Top guns for a lot of years.  They are tough but they are not Top Strap Guns and are based on BP designs from the 1850s and 60s.  The only thing holding the gun together are the threads on the arbor in the frame.  I don't personally recommend big heavy bullet and loads approaching MAX.  There are those who will argue with me and who shoot Big Heavy bullets, but I just keep in mind it just those threads keeping the gun together.
The pressure(s) generated by BP and Smokeless are different.  A LOT different.  22Gr of 2f under a 212Gr bullet is a nice load.  Loading up heavier is beating up on a nice gun

Coffinmaker

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[Rabbit]

Thanks so much for the responses. I appreciate your time and advice.

Crow Choker, to answer your question, I asked about the load data they had using Clays and a 240 grain lead bullet. I have a mold from Lyman that is listed as a  cowboy style bullet that Lyman says casts at 240 grains. When I cast this bullet from WW and lube it with Rooster Red, it weights in at 250 grains. I wanted to try this bullet with the Clays data. I asked, I thought the 10 gain difference might not make that much of a difference, but the guy at Hodgdon thought different. He said that Clays could develop pressure pretty fast, he recommended 231. He said that open top revolvers were weak and if I when to far on the smokeless powder, it could spring the revolver.

I think my new plan will be to make up some loads using my 250 grain bullet and FF black powder. Uberti chambers the open top in .44 special and the original .44 special load was make up with 246 grain lead bullets and 22.5 grains of Black Powder.  I may substitute with APP. I will keep you guys posted on how this load shoots.

Again, thanks for your help.
Rabbit