2nd vs 3rd gen dilemma

[hatman]

After a year of mostly going OCD on flintlocks I'm coming back around to c&b.
I have a nice Uberti Walker and an ugly ASM 3rd Dragoon.
I'm jonesing for a nice Colt Dragoon.
I've read a plethora of opinions and facts about 2nd vs 3rd gen Colt Dragoons and not looking to revisit all that.
I'm just looking for folks' vote on the following choices I have at the moment:
1.  A 3rd gen 1st model (with nickel backstrap) for $600, or...
2.  A 2nd gen 3rd model (with brass backstrap) for $800.

Both are essentially new and have equivalent case hardening.

Your vote?

This isn't meant to be greatly serious; I'm just feeling like hitting the "Bid" button tonight. 

[Poodleshooter]

3rd gen.
 After years of a Super Blackhawk with .310gr hunting loads, just looking at squareback trigger guards makes my knuckles feel sore. 

[Major 2]

Looking strictly at the price spread ...

"if" cost is a factor and the address line is optional

get a UBERTI .... about  $350 NIB


considerations....

2nd Gen is Uberti ( Iver Johnson US assembled ) ...very nicely finished case,  address line and will letter @ COLT for what that may be worth to you... $800 ( your posted # )

3rd Gen. also Uberti  ( Either IJ US or Gardone' assembled)  Address line , will not Letter  $600 ( again your posted # )

Uberti , may have a Fredericksburg, Tx  , Accokeek, Maryland  or Winchester Va.  Address line ...of course will not letter
$350 .... and if you are prudent in your search...get two .... maybe 2nd & 3rd Model Dragoons   for the price of the others ...

all will need , a look see and some adjustment "if you plan to shoot in Competition

Truly depends on how important  -Address  SamL Colt - New York-  is to you  


For what its worth...I have 2nd Gen.s , 60's,  51's & a 3rd. Dragoon,  but I've had them since the 70's  

I had both 60 Army & 51 Navy 3rd Gen.s was not overly enamored with them....sold them in the 90's
 (and BTW, I had a 61 Springfield Rifle COLT 3rd Gen. anybody remember those ? made by ArmiSport w/ Colt markings )


one more little tid bit for you  remember what I wrote " 3rd Gen. also Uberti  ( Either IJ US or Gardone' assembled) ?
Gardone assembled did not necessarily mean Uberti though it was Uberti parts ....ASM assembled a lot of them.
 When the 3rd Gen.  line was discontinued, ASM still had -Address SamL Colt- New York-   rolled marked barrels.
( had one of the their Walkers )  and continued to assemble and export them.
Colt brought suit and forced ASM to cease.
The ASM Walker I had was pretty nice....what I did to it and who later owned it is another interesting tale.

[Advertising]

[hatman]

Looking strictly at the price spread ...

"if" cost is a factor and the address line is optional

get a UBERTI .... about  $350 NIB


considerations....

2nd Gen is Uberti ( Iver Johnson US assembled ) ...very nicely finished case,  address line and will letter @ COLT for what that may be worth to you... $800 ( your posted # )

3rd Gen. also Uberti  ( Either IJ US or Gardone' assembled)  Address line , will not Letter  $600 ( again your posted # )

Uberti , may have a Fredericksburg, Tx  , Accokeek, Maryland  or Winchester Va.  Address line ...of course will not letter
$350 .... and if you are prudent in your search...get two .... maybe 2nd & 3rd Model Dragoons   for the price of the others ...

all will need , a look see and some adjustment "if you plan to shoot in Competition

Truly depends on how important  -Address  SamL Colt - New York-  is to you  


For what its worth...I have 2nd Gen.s , 60's,  51's & a 3rd. Dragoon,  but I've had them since the 70's  

I had both 60 Army & 51 Navy 3rd Gen.s was not overly enamored with them....sold them in the 90's
 (and BTW, I had a 61 Springfield Rifle COLT 3rd Gen. anybody remember those ? made by ArmiSport w/ Colt markings )


one more little tid bit for you  remember what I wrote " 3rd Gen. also Uberti  ( Either IJ US or Gardone' assembled) ?
Gardone assembled did not necessarily mean Uberti though it was Uberti parts ....ASM assembled a lot of them.
 When the 3rd Gen.  line was discontinued, ASM still had -Address SamL Colt- New York-   rolled marked barrels.
( had one of the their Walkers )  and continued to assemble and export them.
Colt brought suit and forced ASM to cease.
The ASM Walker I had was pretty nice....what I did to it and who later owned it is another interesting tale.

Thanks for that, Major.
Cost isn't a concern and I'm not a competition shooter.

I have a Uberti Walker and it is a great shooter.
If a 3rd gen is no worse than a Uberti functionally, I'm willing to spend a couple hundred more for nicer case color hardening and the "nickel" backstrap.

[hatman]

The 3rd gen is still available for $600, but I just can't do it.
The nickel backstrap looks nice, but since it isn't period-correct I have to pass.
I think I'll go with a Uberti and if it needs work I have a local gunsmith I can use.

[LonesomePigeon]

The 3rd Gen should have a silver plated brass trigger guard and backstrap, not nickel. I believe silver plated brass is period correct for Colt's made for the civilian market whereas military Colt's had plain brass. The only thing I don't like about the 3rd Gens is the "Sam Colt" signature on the backstrap.

 

[hatman]

The 3rd Gen should have a silver plated brass trigger guard and backstrap, not nickel. I believe silver plated brass is period correct for Colt's made for the civilian market whereas military Colt's had plain brass. The only thing I don't like about the 3rd Gens is the "Sam Colt" signature on the backstrap.

 

I did not know that.  Thanks.
Back to considering it again. 

[Coffinmaker]

This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the OP's dilemma.  NOTHING!! 

I wish, at some point, the moniker, phrase, whatever ........ "PERIOD CORRECT" would be removed and banned from the English Language.
We are, after all, talking about REPRODUCTIONS.  Reproductions of what once was.  The guns produced during those Halcyon days of yesteryear, left the factories with all manner of different configurations.  It primarily depended on "parts on hand."  In all fairness, trying to duplicate one of those guns, one must ask, it is a gun, produced on what day, of what month, of what year, by what technician not withstanding ...... THE PHASE OF THE MOON!!

NOTHING, currently manufactured, looks EXACTLY like the guns built 150 years ago.  Close, but not exactly.  If the item looks good from the freeway, and you enjoy playing with it, your there.  The PRIME DIRECTIVE is to have fun.  If .... on the other hand ..... your in constant pursuit of PERFECTION ..... your destined to be disappointed and unhappy.  That just ain't FUN!!

Just my take. 
Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Coffinmaker

[hatman]

This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the OP's dilemma.  NOTHING!! 

I wish, at some point, the moniker, phrase, whatever ........ "PERIOD CORRECT" would be removed and banned from the English Language.
We are, after all, talking about REPRODUCTIONS.  Reproductions of what once was.  The guns produced during those Halcyon days of yesteryear, left the factories with all manner of different configurations.  It primarily depended on "parts on hand."  In all fairness, trying to duplicate one of those guns, one must ask, it is a gun, produced on what day, of what month, of what year, by what technician not withstanding ...... THE PHASE OF THE MOON!!

NOTHING, currently manufactured, looks EXACTLY like the guns built 150 years ago.  Close, but not exactly.  If the item looks good from the freeway, and you enjoy playing with it, your there.  The PRIME DIRECTIVE is to have fun.  If .... on the other hand ..... your in constant pursuit of PERFECTION ..... your destined to be disappointed and unhappy.  That just ain't FUN!!

Just my take. 
Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Coffinmaker

Point well taken, Coffinmaker.
I always learn more about BP from your posts and thanks for that.
I'm 63 and fairly new to BP shooting and just enjoying the physical and historical experience.
I can assure you I'm all-in on the prime objective.

Tonight I received my latest flintlock (54 cal 38" swamped barrel).
It's all good.   

[Crow Choker]

What Coffinmaker said!! Hate that "period correct" mantra also. Also the old standby argument "It (the gun) won't letter from Colt"! Nothing wrong with getting a "2nd generation" if that's what you want, just pay more for them. Nothing wrong with the "3rd generation" guns either. Shooters get to snobby IMO with them. The Sam Colt signature won't affect the guns mechanical action. Someday they, the 3rd Generation guns may be a 'go for' collector, who knows. A regular, run of the mill Uberti is just as good to. All may/will need some TLC to get them timed right.

[Major 2]

CC what you say about "won't affect the guns mechanical"

However,  I don't care for it....

Nor Wyatt Earp on a Shotgun
Evil Roy, China Camp , Island Girl , 
or...
Davy Crockett , Dan'l Boone, Buffalo Bill 
Gene Autry , Roy Rogers, The Rifleman, slathered all over the sides of cap guns when I was Kid

[hatman]

OK, so this morning I bought the 3rd gen 1st model.  It should be here next week.  
Thanks for all the feedback/discussion.

[Professor Marvel]

OK, so this morning I bought the 3rd gen 1st model.  It should be here next week.  
Thanks for all the feedback/discussion.

Sweeeeeet.
please post photos, or at least tintypes when you can so we can all drool

yhs
prof marvel

[hatman]

Sweeeeeet.
please post photos, or at least tintypes when you can so we can all drool

yhs
prof marvel

Hopefully this link is OK to use:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/593270971

It's only a couple hundred more than a Uberti.  Seems to me to be a pretty good deal if the CCH is as nice as the pictures. 

And I really don't care that it doesn't letter from Colt, just that she's good quality and purdy. 

[Professor Marvel]

Very Pretty! thanks!

yhs
prf mumbles

[Crow Choker]

Nice lookin shooter thar Hatman. I love the Dragoon series of guns. Have a 2nd Mod Uberti, 3rd Mod Signature, and a Transition Dragoon. If you haven't already read it, back in Nov of 2011 there was a posting started by Oregon Bill about a Transition Dragoon, had a lot to to with the round vs the rectangular bolts on the various models of Dragoons. Good read and info. Mako who used to post on the City gave some 'real' good info on the lock systems of the two styles. I'd give a link, but haven't figured how to do it except for any thing on this page. You can find it on page 22 of this 'Darkside Den', about 3/4's down. Post titled "Dragoon's: Which One", last post dated 11/21/2011. Good shootin to ya. Crow

[hatman]

Nice lookin shooter thar Hatman. I love the Dragoon series of guns. Have a 2nd Mod Uberti, 3rd Mod Signature, and a Transition Dragoon. If you haven't already read it, back in Nov of 2011 there was a posting started by Oregon Bill about a Transition Dragoon, had a lot to to with the round vs the rectangular bolts on the various models of Dragoons. Good read and info. Mako who used to post on the City gave some 'real' good info on the lock systems of the two styles. I'd give a link, but haven't figured how to do it except for any thing on this page. You can find it on page 22 of this 'Darkside Den', about 3/4's down. Post titled "Dragoon's: Which One", last post dated 11/21/2011. Good shootin to ya. Crow

Thanks Crow Choker.
I'm still a newbie when it comes to black powder, but I do love it so. 

[Scattered Thumbs]

Hopefully this link is OK to use:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/593270971

It's only a couple hundred more than a Uberti.  Seems to me to be a pretty good deal if the CCH is as nice as the pictures. 

And I really don't care that it doesn't letter from Colt, just that she's good quality and purdy. 

I'm not really impressed. Hopefully it's just a really bad photo. But, what should have been straight surfaces look kind of wavy.

[LonesomePigeon]

  Super nice gun hatman.  To clarify I'm not fond of the signature but it certainly wouldn't keep me from buying one.

The 1st model should have V-style mainspring. You might want to get a Walker nipple wrench https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/160/1/NW-WALKER as it will make disassembly - reassembly much easier.

[hatman]

  Super nice gun hatman.  To clarify I'm not fond of the signature but it certainly wouldn't keep me from buying one.

The 1st model should have V-style mainspring. You might want to get a Walker nipple wrench https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/160/1/NW-WALKER as it will make disassembly - reassembly much easier.

Thanks LP.
I have a standard type Walker nipple wrench.  If for some reason it doesn't work, thanks for the link.