SxS Hammerless Suggestions

[Cemetery]

Looking at Hammerless SxS's.

Handled the SKS, and Baikal, while very nice, seem to light for BP loads at the 60g or more loadings.

Should I consider looking at a Stoeger?

[Gabriel Law]

I bought a couple of s x s shotguns from Tradex Canada, out of Ontario.  They are European, Meteor (Belgian) brand, and go for around $240 CDN.  Shipping to me out west is around $30.  They are excellent guns and though used are nice and tight and hold up just fine.  I load 75 gr. FFg GOEX and 1 1/16 oz of 7 1/2's.

[Johnny McCrae]

I used a Stoeger hammerless Coach Gun for nine years and it served me well. Several of my fellow Shooters use Stoeger's and have had virtually no problems.

I now use a Bakal side by side with hammers just for a change. My 1897 is used only for Wild Brunch Matches.

Take a look at the Stoeger's if you can.

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[Blair]

The biggest issue I have found with using the newer hammerless shot guns is in the opening, after shooting. They can be quite stiff.
This is due to the fact that opening the action also cocks the inside hammers.
This is not to say that the hammer springs wont lighten up somewhat with use, it only means that this maybe something one has to get use to over time.
My best,
 Blair

[Johnny McCrae]

The biggest issue I have found with using the newer hammerless shot guns is in the opening, after shooting. They can be quite stiff.

How true.
I had my Gunsmith take care of that along with polishing the cylinders. I also use only Winchester AA hulls when reloading.

[Pettifogger]

If you are looking for a double for CAS shooting there are basically four.  The Stoeger and Baikal on the cheap side.  And the SKB and BSS on the expensive side.  There are a smattering of others but these make up the vast, vast, bulk of CAS double barrel shotguns.  They all require tuning for competion and if tuned correctly each works just fine.

[Noz]

If you are looking for a double for CAS shooting there are basically four.  The Stoeger and Baikal on the cheap side.  And the SKB and BSS on the expensive side.  There are a smattering of others but these make up the vast, vast, bulk of CAS double barrel shotguns.  They all require tuning for competion and if tuned correctly each works just fine.

I shoot a double trigger Baikal.
I own a TTN.
My Evil Twin shoots a BSS and I watch with envy in my heart.

When my ship comes in I will own a BSS.

[Cemetery]

I shoot a double trigger Baikal.

How's the Baikal with the recoil of BP?

[Cemetery]

When my ship comes in I will own a BSS.

I thought my ship came in recently, turned out it was a garbage barge............

[Noz]

How's the Baikal with the recoil of BP?

It's heavy as a tank so recoil is of no consideration,  I shoot 70 grs when I feel especially manly, 51 as a day to day match load and as low as 30 as an experiment. All with  FFg and 1 oz of shot and a plastic wad.

None of these loads have objectionable recoil but obviously the 30 gr load would be the most comfortable. It also is the load most likely to leave a SASS shotgun Kd standing.

[hellgate]

I use mainly an IGA Stoeger. I did 3 things to it: put in a mercury recoil arrester, rubber recoil pad and replaced the opening lever spring with a Ruger Security Six (lighter) spring.

Another SXS I occasionally use is a TTN. It is already so heavy it has no recoil. I have an earlier one that came with truck springs that were replaced by the importer @ no charge (I installed them). It cocks bit hammers nicely with one thumb.

[Coffinmaker]

My personal "shooting" experience with Hammerless (New Fangled Fad) shotguns is somewhat stunted.  My only hammerless was a nice double trigger Stoeger (I don't like single trigger guns).  Put a nice Pacmyer recoil pad on it, switched the triggers, disabled the auto safety (still work'd mechanical) and shot heck out of it.  I personally think shotguns over a thousand buck for CAS are a mite over the top.

Coffinmaker

[Abilene]

My first shotgun was a Baikal, double trigger (IZH-43).  Shot it for about a year then had Coyote Cap do an action job.  About a thousand smokeless and 2K BP through it with no problems.  BP recoil (about 60gr FFg) is no biggie.  It only comes out to play occasionally since I mostly shoot my TTN.

[Tascosa Joe]

I shoot L.C. Smith.

[Major 2]

for 2 cents ....I'll,  ah I'm gonna type it anyway....    cause I , well I'm gonna anyway

An expensive SXS is a joy , but as Coffin maker say's "for CAS are a mite over the top".

in the 90's play'n' SASS, I used a old field grade Fox 311 28" , I bought a Brazilian/Steger coach gun in 99....minor polishing and it was OK.
For 4- 6 shots to complete the SASS Stage , I felt no need for high end SXS.

Going forward, I sold it and got the TTn. I like the exposed hammers.....  however, things do change

I no longer shoot SASS, it's NCOWS and I shoot 2 gun , no Shotgun needed...still I have the TTn & a 97 Trench...

 What I learned on my ride....

* the old Fox was cheap ( a hand me down ) and a good shooter
* Stoeger , also inexpensive at the time ( under $300 )  solid shooter after a de-bur & Polish ... and Vanilla plain
* Baikal ( the ones I had occasion to use ) tank tuff , stiff but workable with some elbow time.
* TTn  also Tank like built , hoot with the double hammers, so far in 9 years no issues
     course I have not shot it much in the last 2 or 3    NCOWS remember ...

* the 97 Trench, cool as beans ....Bought it on wild hair lark    ,  but it has yet to see a wild Bunch type meet  -


IMHO ...get either the Stoeger or Baikal  do the polish  and blast away

[rickk]

I have two Stoeger Supreme's (stainless reciever).

They are both double trigger versions and work well.

One was originally a single trigger version. Every time I pulled the trigger, for me, both barrels would fire. It went back once and they tuned it. When it came back it still did the same thing. It went back a second time and it didn't double for any of the smiths at Stoeger.  I got a call and they told me that for some people, particularly people that grew up on rifles and handguns rather than shotguns, it will do that. It is simply a matter of trigger technique. The factory offered me a double trigger version in trade so now I have two of them.    After having had that experience, and per the Benelli forums I am not the only one that has had that happen, I would recommend the double trigger version.


The Supreme version is an extra $100 or so. It comes with replaceable screw-in chokes and a very functional rubber butt pad, plus the stainless receiver is available on that model. I shoot BP exclusively in them so the stainless receiver seemed like a wise choice.

About the only thing I did to them is run a chamber hone in them to mirror-polish the chambers for smoother extraction. THey weren't all that bad as received however.

Rick

[Anthony39V2]

Hello,

I am interested in purchasing a Stoeger SxS.  From the discussion boards, it appears that only the Stoeger single trigger SxS have design reliability issues.  However, most Stoeger single trigger problems on message boards are many years old.  I have three questions:

1.  Has Stoeger redesigned the SxS single trigger mechanisms to correct the problem in recent years?
2.  Are ALL Stoeger SxS with the double trigger reliable, or just a few of them?
3.  If only a few Stoeger SxS double trigger versions are reliable, which ones have the best track record?

Thanks

[Coffinmaker]

Hello Anthony39V2,

I'll try to cover all your questions.  A caveat:  I don't shoot hammerless doubles.  I just use to work on them for "others."  My personal preference runs to Hammer doubles.  In any event >>>>

1.  No.  The single trigger mechanism in a Stoeger has not been changed.  The single trigger guns still have reliability problems.  They need a competent shotgun guy to go thru them and clean up the trigger group.

2.  The Stoegers with double triggers are pretty much bullet-proof.  You cannot however, lump reliability into "ALL are reliable."  Every now and then, your gonna get a "Friday" gun that needs help.

3.  Not a viable question.  Internally, Stoeger Double Trigger guns are the same.  When there is a problem, usually it just needs to be cleaned up.

4.  If what your really looking for, is a SXS that is dead reliable out of the box, it doesn't exist.  There simply are going to be hiccups.  You pays your money and takes your chances. Most times, things will go well.  (Murphy not withstanding)

Coffinmaker

[rickk]

The issue with the Stoeger single trigger is not something that can really be "cleaned up by a competent gunsmith".

Mine went back to Stoeger twice. They did extensive work on it and it still fired both barrels for me every time.

The head gunsmith from Stoeger told me that he had several of his gunsmiths shoot it after it went back for a second look and it worked fine for all of them.

I believe the issue has to do with the small amount of trigger movement needed to reset. This is the design of the action and is not something that is readily changed.

As the gun recoils, the trigger resets and your continuation of the trigger pull fires the second barrel. This happens so quickly that you wont even hear the barrels firing separately... it sounds like one single "bang".

If you jerk the trigger, which I believe that most shotgun only shooters probably do, it will not reset without intentionally releasing the trigger and will fire only one barrel at a time. If you spent way too much time with rifles and handguns and pull the trigger in a "smooth and continuous manner", it will probably fire both barrels for you.

I have other doubles that are single trigger models and I don't have this problem with them. I only have the problem with the Stoeger. I admit the Stoeger is the only 18" barreled SxS I have, so the recoil is a bit more intense in it than the others. That might have something to do with what happens.

Rick

[Noz]

The shotguns that double(fire both barrels with one trigger pull) are basically sound. The problem is in the shooter. The shooter that is sensitive to recoil tends to push the shotgun away from his/her shoulder instead of pulling it in tight. They pull the trigger, the gun recoils and they instinctively push it away again. If their finger is close to the trigger the push make the finger contact the trigger and the second barrel fires.
I have seen two women shooters who were able to correct the problem simply after it was explained to them.