New Thread. Using 777 in a Colt 1861 what would be a good starting load

[Dick Dastardly]

Here's what Hodgdons has to say.

TRIPLE SEVEN™ DATA

NEVER Exceed the Loads Listed Here

Triple Seven

Cap and Ball Revolvers
36 Cal. 1851 Navy Steel Frame   
POWDER MEASURE SETTING TRIPLE SEVEN FFFG

Bullet & Wad
   
15 GR.
   
20 GR.
375 Hdy. RB Ox-Yoke W/Wad   
662
   
832
44 Cal. 1858 Rem. Steel Frame   
POWDER MEASURE SETTING TRIPLE SEVEN FFFG

Bullet & Wad
   
20 GR.
   
25 GR.
454 Hdy. RB Ox-Yoke W/Wad   
536
   
763
44 Cal. 1863 Army Steel Frame   
POWDER MEASURE SETTING TRIPLE SEVEN FFFG

Bullet & Wad
   
20 GR.
   
25 GR.
451 Spr. RB Ox-Yoke W/Wad   
524
   
592
45 Cal. Ruger Old Army   
POWDER MEASURE SETTING TRIPLE SEVEN FFFG

Bullet & Wad
   
30 GR.
   
35 GR.
457 Hdy. RB Ox-Yoke W/Wad   
845
   
987


The formatting didn't copy rite, but the words are there.  Hope this helps.

DD-DLoS

[Remington Kid]

Dick, I do believe that you will always see loads listed by powder and gun manufactors WAY under what they can really handle with no problems.
A friend of mine shoots 40g of 777 in his Remington .44 and has for a long time with no problems. I use 40g of Goex fffg in my .44 Remington with a felt wad on top, a light smear of grease around the mouth of the chamber and then seat a .454 ball and have never had a bit of trouble and accuracy is great.
When they used these C&B revolvers in the heat of battle I don't feel that they always paid much attention to the load used at that time. I know they had the paper cartridges and extra loaded cylinders but I also believe there were times when they loaded as fast as possiable by the seat of the pants and many of guns are still around today.
Sure can't blame the big boys for covering there butts by keeping the charges low.

[Dick Dastardly]

I just copied and pasted from the Hogdens web site.  I personally shoot only Holy Black, but thought it helpful to show the factory data for a fine replica powder.  I have no doubt that it's connservative, but may give a very good starting load to work up from.

DD-DLoS

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[Remington Kid]

Your right there! Great info too. Mike

[Sundance]

Well DD yeh beat me to the draw, I tried to post that info yesterday along with a pic of my new Navy 61.  The thread I started doesn't want to open up.

[El Paso Pete]

You go usin 40 grains of FFF or Goex in an open top Colt Rowdy Yates will get his ranch in the south of France in a hurry.  You'll pull the base pin out by the roots. 

El Paso ( who has helped Rowdy save up fer the place) Pete

[Dick Dastardly]

I've pushed the envelope some myself.  I have a deer rifle that my very good friend and fine riflesmith, Ernie Shane, and myself designed over many a nights late oil and long beer.  It's built on an Oberndorf pre WWII Mauser action.  The Caliber is 257 Durham Jet based on a blown out, sharp shouldered and necked down to .257".  I worked over two years to find a safe pressure load that would move a 100 grain Nosler partition bullet along at 3200 fps out of the lil 20" tube.

Ok, I was teasing the dragon.  As a result of long and careful work I have a rifle that is, with some alchemy on my part, the best balanced Wisconsin deer killer in the woods.  It is topped with a 1.5-6 Kahles 30mm glass sight.  The rifle is light, death ray accurate to 300 yards and does consistant one shot kills.  I'm saddened that I will not hunt this year cuz of my MVA.

Now, if I were to push the envelope with a C&B revolver, it would be a Ruger Old Army.  I'm not throwin' water on anybody elses campfire here cuz I'm speakin' strictly for myself.  I do have a load for my ROA via Kirst Konverter that moves a 250 grain PRS bullet along at over 1000 fps over my Ohler 33 chronograph.  That's a lot of energy and I don't much enjoy shootin' it, even two handed.  I won't give the data here.

When it comes to SASS main matches, I want the flames, smoke and boom and fragrence.  I like a warthog load, but NOT a magnum load.  FWIW, I  shoot the same ammo in my rifle that I shoot in my pistols just to keep things simple.

When I shoot the ROA with the C&B cylinder, I load 30 grains by volume of FFFg under pre lube/sized .454 DD/ROA bullets.  This charge gives me all the thrill I desire in the testostrone department.  I do intend to give the same VOLUME of 777 a go and I wouldn't consider it too strong.  If I were shooting a Colt 1861 replica, I would start at least that low and work up from there real careful.  I do know what to look for in the way of high pressure indications in cartridge guns.  I'd hate to be holding a C&B gun that had no way to tell me that the pressure was getting too tall till it came from together in my hand.

So, what are the early signs of too much pressure in a Colt 1861 replica?

Thanks, and no offense ment.  Just tryin' to say "please be careful".

DD-DLoS

[Remington Kid]

Dick, The revolver I'm shooting the 40 g of 3f out of is my .44 Remingtons. I have two of them and have had them for years. Believe me I worked up to this load a little at a time. 30-35 g of 3f is what I shot for years and the accuracy is from these two Remingtons is much more than I could ask for. I have always liked useing a felt wad over the powder and then a little lube around the rim of each chamber before seating the ball. Never had a problem and never had a chain fire.
I then went to 38g of 3f loaded the same way with out any problems at all and you can hardly tell the difference in the loads. As I stated before my friend is useing 40g of 777 and to me he is really pushing it and I have told him so.
After decideing to try it on our white tail Deer I went to 40g. of 3f . After loading the powder in the chamber I place a 1/8" wad on the powder and then the lube and ball just like before. It looks like the ball wont seat below the chamber but it does very easily and in fact I have about 1/16" left in the top of the chamber so I smear a dab of lube over that just to help keep the barrel clean and things running smooth. After a year and a half of shooting this load on a reguler basis I have not had any problems and the accuracy is great.
Three Deer have been taken with this Remie and none went over 40 yards. All of my shots have been from a ground blind at 20 yards or less and in the heart lung area.
It really is amazing what these .44 balls will do and teaches one to have more respect for them and just what they did during the civil war and for many years after.

[Dick Dastardly]

When lives depended on stopping power there never was any question about the leathal effect of round balls.  I don't know the reason, but many old shootists claimed that opponents hit by a round ball "quit the game" promptly.

Good luck on the tall loads.

DD-DLoS

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I have had good success with 15, 17, and recently, 21gr of 777.

21gr of 777 is a handful and I would not shoot it with that load exclusively.

If you can find an 18gr vol funnel, go for it... most 1851/1861 shooters I have had in my Posse have sworn by that load and not at it.