Author Topic: Full Power 45 Colt Loads  (Read 54372 times)

Offline Dick Dastardly

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #60 on: January 22, 2018, 05:05:01 PM »
The loads you chose to load depend on your mission.  If it's deer hunting, then go for the maximum.  If you want the absolute most WOWS at a SASS match, go with the maximum.  But, if you are in the game for speed and accuracy, go for a manageable recoil load that delivers consistent velocities and known accuracy.  With Holy Black, you do have options with this venerable old cartridge and the guns chambered for it.  If your gun is vintage old, respect the old gal and load down a bit.  If your gun is a modern Ruger, then stuff in all the Holy Black you can and the gun will only ask for more.

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Offline Dave T

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2018, 11:48:42 AM »
Dick, my interest in finding the "original" performance was to experience what it was like shooting a 45 Colt SAA in the last quarter of the 19th Century. I gave up competing back in '94 and just want to feel the power and appeal of the original when I drag my busted up self out to the range. (smile)

Dave

Offline Drydock

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2018, 02:11:10 PM »
My reference was to so many ot those BP shooters not knowing HOW or even IF to use water.  IE water causes rust, right?  Better to use some more modern wonder solvent, right? 

Phoohy!  Water is the best and only thing I use to clean up a BP fouled gun.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #63 on: Today at 08:53:53 AM »

Offline Dick Dastardly

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2018, 02:41:56 PM »
I agree Sir Drydock,

Water does the work.  I mix in 1 part Ballistol with 10 parts water because the residual mix leaves a protective coating of lubricant/rust preventive.  But, you're absolutely correct about the water.  Water is the solvent of choice for cleaning bp fouled guns.  The Ballistol is there only for the reasons stated above.

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Offline greyhawk

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2018, 08:39:47 PM »
My reference was to so many ot those BP shooters not knowing HOW or even IF to use water.  IE water causes rust, right?  Better to use some more modern wonder solvent, right? 

Phoohy!  Water is the best and only thing I use to clean up a BP fouled gun.


Thanks for clarifying   - just the way you wrote that sentence it looked like you meant water was  "old knowledge" and wrong -----I see new shooters spend a lot of cash on fancy packaged cleaners and on commercial lubes that stink like horse liniment - cash they would be better most times spent on powder and caps. Simple cleaners and simple lubes work. This is not rocket science ........well - it kinda is I guess but very old rocket science -   

Offline Grapeshot

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2018, 06:25:16 PM »
I've always been attracted by the idea of shooting original performance ammo from guns of the black powder cartridge era and I put a lot of effort into accomplishing that years ago.

Research indicated the original load was with FFg but I couldn't get enough of that granulation in modern, solid head cases to duplicate the oft quoted original performance of 910 fps. What I came up with was a very compressed FFFg load of 36g behind a 255g RNFP. From a 7-1/2" 1st Gen Colt I got average velocities ranging from 907 fps to 914 fps, depending on the time of the year (outside temp).

Since this time around I'm starting from stretch with different guns, different bullets, even different brass (brand-new Starline cases) so before I re-invent the wheel (LOL) I thought I'd ask what folks here do for full power 45 Colt ammunition. I'd be grateful for any and all info you're willing to pass on.

Thanks in advance,
Dave



It appears that I'm about 16 months behind the original post.  I did try the 40 grains of 2Fg.  I weighed each charge, dropped it down a 30 inch drop tube, and compressed it with a compression die enough to seat a "Big Lube" 250 grain RFN bullet up to the crimp groove.  I crimped in a crimp die.  Now, before I got that far I opened the flash hole IAW Spence Wolfe's directions to 3/32nd inch and used a Winchester Large Magnum pistol primer.  When I fired them in my EMF Dakota with a 7.5 inch barrel I turned the world upside down.  The concussion was intense, fire an smoke belched from the muzzle and the recoil was a bit stiff.  People backed away from me and the timer was standing behind me with his arm outstretched and his head was turned away from me.  Man was that fun.
Listen!  Do you hear that?  The roar of Cannons and the screams of the dying.  Ahh!  Music to my ears.

Offline medic15al

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2018, 06:27:51 PM »
Them ole' timers knew a thing or two about a combat cartridge, eh?
Pacem in corde meo, Mors de guns

Offline Dick Dastardly

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #67 on: February 24, 2018, 03:15:09 PM »
Combat cartridge = power on the pill to the enemy person.  Mostly we are combating steel reactive varmints and the dude with the timer is only watching for safety.  The spotters are watching, thru the smoke, for misses.  If it's a hit, it's a hit.  If he thinks it's a miss, it's a hit.  Only if he sees a miss is it a miss.  The smoke and fog of war goes to the shooter.

Choose your mission and the venerable old 45 Colt will deliver what you ask.  All the way from C45Spl to Schofield to 45 Colt, there's a load to fulfill your mission.  For SASS matches I choose the Colt 1860 open tops with Kirst Konverter cylinders and ejectors.  They point the best in my hands, stay on target and satisfy any smoke rule.  C45Spl, standard WLP primers, 1.3 cc of Holy Black under a J/P 45-200 Big Lube® bullet does my work.

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Offline medic15al

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #68 on: February 24, 2018, 03:21:21 PM »
I shoot them now for historical recreation as close to the original specs as possible. Im wanting some .45 Schofeld cases and some 230 grain bullets as well to play with. (45 U.S. Army with the smaller Colt rims.)
Pacem in corde meo, Mors de guns

Offline Grapeshot

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2018, 02:16:52 PM »
I've always been attracted by the idea of shooting original performance ammo from guns of the black powder cartridge era and I put a lot of effort into accomplishing that years ago.

Research indicated the original load was with FFg but I couldn't get enough of that granulation in modern, solid head cases to duplicate the oft quoted original performance of 910 fps. What I came up with was a very compressed FFFg load of 36g behind a 255g RNFP. From a 7-1/2" 1st Gen Colt I got average velocities ranging from 907 fps to 914 fps, depending on the time of the year (outside temp).

Since this time around I'm starting from stretch with different guns, different bullets, even different brass (brand-new Starline cases) so before I re-invent the wheel (LOL) I thought I'd ask what folks here do for full power 45 Colt ammunition. I'd be grateful for any and all info you're willing to pass on.

Thanks in advance,
Dave



Well, let me be amongst the few that tell you this.  After reading Pat & Spence Wolfe's book on reloading the .45/70 for original Trapdoor Rifles and Carbines, I came across a chapter in that book about reloading the .45 Colt to Mil Spec.  This was using 2Fg, a 40grain, weighed charge.  Dropped down a 30 inch drop tube and compressed with a compression die enough to use a 250 - 255 grain cast lead bullet.  He also opened up the flash hole to 3/32nds of an inch and lit the charge off with a Winchester Large Magnum Pistol Primer.  Having done all that, you will not be disappointed with the muzzle blast or the recoil.  When I used that load, people would draw back from the firing line when I got up there to shoot.
Listen!  Do you hear that?  The roar of Cannons and the screams of the dying.  Ahh!  Music to my ears.

Offline Crow Choker

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2018, 08:40:23 AM »
Well, let me be amongst the few that tell you this.  After reading Pat & Spence Wolfe's book on reloading the .45/70 for original Trapdoor Rifles and Carbines, I came across a chapter in that book about reloading the .45 Colt to Mil Spec. When I used that load, people would draw back from the firing line when I got up there to shoot.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D----LOL, Love it!!!! :)
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Offline Dave T

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2018, 10:13:17 AM »
When I used that load, people would draw back from the firing line when I got up there to shoot.

LOL - Back in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when I was shooting with the Los Vaqueros CAS club out of Tucson, I shot 35-36 grains of FFFg behind a 255g bullet. When I stepped up to shoot everyone backed away, including the timer. More often than not, shooting my 1883 7-1/2" Cavalry Colt, I would knock over a couple of the pistol targets (they weren't knockdowns) and the timers always asked me why I had to shoot such heavy loads. My answer was always the same: I was shooting original 1880s Colts and wanted to know what it was really like to shoot them back in the day. It was great fun and quite an experience.

Dave

Offline Dave T

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2018, 10:39:45 AM »
As an up-date to my original topic and question, I have chronographed some Black MZ loads and one is very close in performance, from my 7-1/2" USFA revolver, to the performance I got from 35g-36g of FFFg in my 1883 vintage 7-1/2" Colt 25 years ago. That BP load produced an average velocity of 907 fps with a 255g bullet. Last week I got 916 fps with a 256g bullet over 2.2cc of BlackMZ.

I now have a load with a modern substitute that delivers "full power 45 Colt" performance. I need to refine my loading technique to get the Extreme Spread down to a more acceptable level (I'm not consistant scooping powder) but improving that will keep me off the streets at night. (smiley face goes here)

Dave

Offline Grapeshot

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #73 on: May 05, 2018, 09:04:41 PM »
As an up-date to my original topic and question, I have chronographed some Black MZ loads and one is very close in performance, from my 7-1/2" USFA revolver, to the performance I got from 35g-36g of FFFg in my 1883 vintage 7-1/2" Colt 25 years ago. That BP load produced an average velocity of 907 fps with a 255g bullet. Last week I got 916 fps with a 256g bullet over 2.2cc of BlackMZ.

I now have a load with a modern substitute that delivers "full power 45 Colt" performance. I need to refine my loading technique to get the Extreme Spread down to a more acceptable level (I'm not consistant scooping powder) but improving that will keep me off the streets at night. (smiley face goes here)

Dave

If you can not be consistent, have you tried weighing your scooped powder charge and use a powder measure like the RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure and set the volume to throw the same weight of your powder?  That is what I did.  YMMV.
Listen!  Do you hear that?  The roar of Cannons and the screams of the dying.  Ahh!  Music to my ears.

Offline Dave T

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #74 on: May 05, 2018, 09:28:26 PM »
Back when I was shooting CAS with BP loads I found a Pacific Pistol Powder Measure, with a brass hopper and brass rotors. I took one of the smaller rotors and drilled it out gradually until it dropped my preferred charge of FFFg. That measure got sold (or maybe given away, I don't remember which) when I got out of CAS and those old guns.

Now that I'm dabbling in it again I just found a vintage Pacific Pistol Powder measure with several rotors on eBay and bought it. Kind of like going home again. (big smiley face goes here)

Dave

Offline greenjoytj

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2018, 08:23:02 AM »
I opened the flash hole IAW Spence Wolfe's directions to 3/32nd inch and used a Winchester Large Magnum pistol primer.

What was your primer condition firing with an enlarged flash hole?
My 35 gr 2fg Goex 260 gr RNFP loads make my CCI 350 primers look quite flat where as a similar power level load with CFE-P  smokeless leaves the primers still have rounded edges.  Just my BP loads flatten primers.

Offline Dave T

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #76 on: August 17, 2018, 06:05:03 PM »
Since I'm still playing with this stuff I went back today and re-read this whole thread. I'm curious as to the rational behind opening up the flash-holein 45 Colt cases? It's not like black powder is hard to ignite. An I would think there would be some likelihood of the primer setting back and jamming up the revolver's cylinder.

In all the experimentation I did 25-30 years ago, and what I'm doing now I've had no problem with ignition of my BP or substitute charges. In fact I don't even bother with magnum primers. Regular ol' LPs seem to work just fine.

YMMV,
Dave

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2018, 07:33:06 PM »

I'm not real sure of the reasoning behind opening up the flash hole in a pistol cartridge.  I have personally never experienced a problem setting off any charge in a stock 45 Colt case with nothing more than any standard primer.  In the first couple of nano seconds (or less), the primer starts the ignition process (solid rocket fuel), the case pressure begins to build and sets the primer back then as the case pressure continues to build it (case pressure) sets the case back against the recoil shield and starts the bullet on it's merry way. 

That is the sequence of events in any cartridge that I know of.  The flash hole acts as a Venturi (rocket nozzle) to accelerate the flame travel into the fuel.  Enlarging the flash hole would only act to slow the propagation of the priming charge into the fuel chamber (It really is Rocket Science you see) slowing the overall burn.  We are only talking a Nano second or two but the physics are exactly the same. 

With the charge as listed by Grapeshot, your going to get the "Earth Shattering KABOOM" (Quote Marvin the Martian) whether one enlarges the flash hole or not.  Trust me, Grapeshot's load is going to get your attention clear into the next county.  Fun to watch too (from a distance).  Definitely need Eye and Ear protection ... and perhaps a launch site blockhouse   ;D

Offline Dave T

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #78 on: August 18, 2018, 03:28:07 PM »
CM,

Your description of what happens when a round is fired is exactly what i have long understood the mechanics/physics to be. That's why I questioned the flash hole opening business. Didn't make sense based on my understanding of what's going on inside there.

Dave

Offline R.M. Conversion

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Re: Full Power 45 Colt Loads
« Reply #79 on: September 18, 2018, 11:03:31 PM »
After a lot of experimentation with lube cookies, wads, etc - I've settled on the recipe of:  1 Starline .44 Colt case of FFg (I fill 'em in batches), 1 circle-fly fiber wad, and a 255g pill.  Shoot great, mid-power, accurate and not too tough on my open-top.

 

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