Help Needed to "Cure" ASP Winchester 73

[Long Johns Wolf]

I purchased this neat 1979 Armi san Paolo rifle in .44-40 cal. a few months ago to become my main match rifle once it works reliably.
Everything is fine but ... when I load 10 in the rifle the 10th round sits always "diagonally" in the carrier, is misaligned.
I can correct this ... sometimes ... by pushing the last cartridge with a dowel pin through the loading gate into the mag tube and it slides back into the carrier straight. But this does not work in 100 % of the cases.
The consequence? I cannot cycle the rifle, it's blocked!
Any suggestions how to permanently cure this? Getting another rifle is not an option.
Thanks,
Long Johns Wolf

[Abilene]

I've seen this on some Ubertis, when they stopped cutting a bevel in the frame for a while, so your ASP may have a similar issue.  There is a webpage out there somewhere that describes this but I don't have it bookmarked any more.  But here is a pic I took of a carrier mortice that I filed the missing bevel back in (the lighter colored metal between the two arrows, looking up from the bottom mortice opening of the frame and with the carrier removed).  The rim of the cartridge gets caught under that sharp opening, and when beveled it pushes the cartridge forward as the carrier rises.



Some other things:  Too much spring in the magazine will contribute to the last round sitting at an angle.  Shorten your spring if need be, most folks say that a couple inches of spring extending past the magazine with the cap removed is plenty.  I have this problem with my 16" '73 Trapper when loading ten full length .45LC, and the spring can't be shortened on that one.  It has the bevel in the frame but that last round has so much spring pressure on it, the rim will jam under the frame edge anyway.  So at the loading table after loading ten I lower the lever to slide the bolt back (not far enough to cock the hammer), and stick a knife blade down into the carrier to straighten up that round.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Abilene: you are a magician. Your 2nd suggestion seems to be the key.
In the dry firing mode the ASP works now, ha.
I switched the heavy duty ASP mag spring to a 1997 made Uberti 73 rifle spring which had the barrel shortened to 22".
Loading the 10 rounds required significantly less pressure and I could cylce and eject all 10 rounds.
Will check the rifle on the range on Wednesday, xxxx fingers, please.
Thanks, Abilene, I owe you.
Long Johns Wolf

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[Coffinmaker]

LJW,
As a Retired Gunsmith, in regard to your problem, it is still strongly suggested you inspect the back wall of the Carrier Block Mortice for
the bevel as shown in the post by Abilene.  That bevel is quite important.

Additionally, I feel Abilene didn't go far enough with his bevel.  Needs to be a little deeper to really be able to clear the case rims.

Coffinmaker

[Long Johns Wolf]

Thanks, Coffinmaker, a complete disassembly is the order of the evening after my range time tomorrow.
Long Johns Wolf

[Cliff Fendley]

Yeah the older Ubertis are like that. If I'd seen this thread a year ago it would have saved me some time.

One that my wife started shooting last year turned out to be like that. You had to push that last round you load over straight. Took me a little while comparing to figure out what was wrong with it.

[Long Johns Wolf]

You may find these comparative measurements of the magazine coil springs informative:
ASP: OAL after a few adjusting cuts like mag tube, thickness of wire 0,88 mm/0.0345".
Uberti replacement from 24" barrel rifle now in ASP: OAL 81,00 mm/3.188" longer than mag tube, tickness of wire 0,70 mm/0.0275".
Long Johns Wolf

[Long Johns Wolf]

Gave the ASP - lower one on the pic - a hard time on the range yesterday with a couple of 10 round strings.
She did not miss a beat.
The mag spring of my former Uberti match rifle - upper one on the pic - did the trick.
The ASP is now officially my new main match rifle. Yeeehaw.
One observation that I like to share: I only shoot reloaded .44-40. The ASP does not seem to be overly cartridge size sensitive (cases with nicks etc.). I loaded some strange sized fodder and she just cycled them into the chamber, fired and ejected. What I could never do with the Uberti.
Thanks Pards, for your valuable advice.
Long Johns Wolf

[Coffinmaker]

LJW,
Oops .... Some things I forgot to suggest when I answered about the bevel on the back wall.  I also suggest, while you have the rifle apart,
(I know too late now), you should consider replacing the OEM type magazine spring with a Stainless Steel Spring, which are a little "softer" than the OEM springs, and a Stainless Steel Follower. 
If you decide to go that way, hopefully one of the US parts suppliers will ship to Germany.

Coffinmaker

[Long Johns Wolf]

Thanks Coffinmaker & al.
For all your helpful suggestions.
The German Uberti distributor HEGE is a good friend. Hence he gave me two replacement mag springs for 24" tubes free of charge (manus manum lavat).
These replacement springs work fine with the original ASP follower.
The latter's shape is slightly different compared to the Uberti one so I kept it in place.
Long Johns Wolf