44-40 at 300 yds.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  As some of you may have seen I've been playing around with my recently acquired 1866 44-40. First regulated the sights for 100 yds. by simply working the front sight down. With the ladder up and in its lowest position, the rifle shot close to a foot high at 200 yds., so some tedious work was required on the rear sight, but I got it. So just for grins I thought I'd see what it would do at 300 yds. In preparation yesterday evening, I calculated that the bullet would need to strike about 33" high at 100 yds., so I set up a target board on my 100 yd. backstop that would allow me to check the elevation. I started on the 300 yd. mark on the ladder and much to my surprise POI was just about perfect, striking only a few inches too high.

  I then hastily moved my old 600 yd. target in 300 yds., cleaned and painted the old 36" gong and this morning got it all up and ready about the time the sun broke the horizon. The area in which I shoot my 100 and 200 yd. targets runs SW to NE which is just about perfect for our prevailing SW winds. But there's no room to shoot out to 300 from that position. So I have to shoot longer distances along my north fence which means I'm shooting to the west. This creates a couple of problems in that it's almost a requirement to shoot in the morning before the sun gets behind the target and before any wind gets up. Too I don't have a shooting bench so shooting from a prone position with a makeshift rest is the only option.

  This morning there wasn't even a puff of a breeze...at first. I ran 10 or so rounds loaded with 9.5 grs. of Unique and the NOE  bullet through to get the feel for it, then painted the target and tried again:
 
  

 Certainly not match accuracy but pretty darned good for a stubby little lead bullet, I thought.

 Emboldened, I hustled to the shop and threw together 20 rounds with 2.2cc of Swiss 3Fg and the same bullet. I got in three shots before the wind picked up, that'd be the three in the center of the five pictured below. After that, it was almost impossible to get any sort of accuracy because of the wind. To put it into perspective, the little bullet drifts about 3' at 300 yds. with a 90° 10 mph perpendicular cross wind.

  

 Rifles such as these with so much drop in the comb of the stock are incredibly difficult to shoot with the barrel (sight) elevated because proper cheek weld on the stock is all but impossible. If/when I do this again I'll likely build up my sandbag test in order to get the rifle, and me, up off the ground a bit more.

  I may, just for grins, someday drag the target out to 400 yds. and see what happens!

 CHT

[dusty texian]

Nice shooting Cholla! I may have missed it , but what is the ROT on the Uberti 66 44-40? ,,,,,DT

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

Thanks, DT! I haven't the slightest idea of the twist. I need to clean it this evening so I'll check it at that time. It will he interesting to know because I have been seriously toying with the idea of loading some of my 258 gr. Keith SWC's in it.

   CHT

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[PJ Hardtack]

Yes, very good shooting!

I'll be going to the range today with my 44-40 Henry. I enjoy ringing the 200m gong off hand with it, much to chagrin of the bench rest/scoped rifle guys who regard it as a challenge.

May get bold and try for the 300m.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

PJ I'd sure be interested in your results. Do you use the ladder for 200 yd.shooting or just hold over with the ladder down? What load and bullet are you using?
 I shot my 200 gong a little Sunday evening from a prone position just using my elbows for support. Hitting the 24" gong is no big deal now that the sights are regulated. Still tons of fun though.

  CHT
 

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

Nice shooting Cholla! I may have missed it , but what is the ROT on the Uberti 66 44-40? ,,,,,DT

 Just remembered this question too! I checked thr ROT and best I can tell it's 1-36". Does that sound about right?

 CHT

[Cliff Fendley]

You have a good one, the newer ones have a 1-20. I have not been able to get the accuracy from the newer ones as the ones with 1-36 twist.

The original Winchester 73's have 1-36 twist.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 Wonder why a faster twist has a negative affect on accuracy? Does the barrel lead because of the higher rotational force on the bullet?
  I've fired 6.5x55 mm's and 7x57mm's quite a bit and they all tended to shoot well regardless of bullet weight and they typically have very fast twists. BUT, I never tried lead bullets in either cartridge, so maybe that's an apples/oranges comparison .

 CHT

[chrispy]

I've head that fast twists are good for light bullets and conicals and slow twists are good for round ball and heavy bullets.  That comes from muzzleloaders, where heavy bullets are .54 and .62 cal.  I don't know if that applies to a more modern idea of heavy or not.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

I've head that fast twists are good for light bullets and conicals and slow twists are good for round ball and heavy bullets.  That comes from muzzleloaders, where heavy bullets are .54 and .62 cal.  I don't know if that applies to a more modern idea of heavy or not.

  Faster twists for longer bullets, slower for short.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

  Faster twists for longer bullets, slower for short.

There's an APP for that!                 http://kwk.us/twist.html

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 I ran a couple of calculations last night and it appears a 1-36 twist will stabilize a bullet up to somewhere around .7" which would mean a .430" bullet around 240 grs. I can't imagine why Uberti would switch to such a fast twist. Seems totally unnecessary. If I get a little time this weekend I'll load and shoot some of my heavy SWC's out of the '66 and see how they do.

  Anyone know the twist of their .44 revolver barrels?

  CHT

[PJ Hardtack]

I was disappointed with my 200m shooting with the Henry this time. I need more practice. However, the 100m is easy to the point of being boring.
My smokeless 44-40 load is 6 grs of Red Dot under a Lyman 427666 RNFP. 33 grs FFg with the same bullet. Didn't shoot any BP loads this time. I up the ladder and use the 200 yd setting.

I rarely shoot anything from the bench once I've established '0'. I EXPECT my rifles to shoot well from the bench. I'm more interested in how they perform in my hands. My best shooting position is the military sitting position with ankles crossed. It's as stable as prone for me, especially if I'm slung up.

I've never verified the ROT in my Uberti Henry, but after cleaning the bore, I had a peek and it appears to be quite slow - likely 1x36".

PJ I'd sure be interested in your results. Do you use the ladder for 200 yd.shooting or just hold over with the ladder down? What load and bullet are you using?
 I shot my 200 gong a little Sunday evening from a prone position just using my elbows for support. Hitting the 24" gong is no big deal now that the sights are regulated. Still tons of fun though.

  CHT
 

[w44wcf]

I ran a couple of calculations last night and it appears a 1-36 twist will stabilize a bullet up to somewhere around .7" which would mean a .430" bullet around 240 grs. I can't imagine why Uberti would switch to such a fast twist. Seems totally unnecessary. If I get a little time this weekend I'll load and shoot some of my heavy SWC's out of the '66 and see how they do.

  Anyone know the twist of their .44 revolver barrels?

  CHT

CHT,
Ah.....300 yards with the 44-40....One of my favorite things to do!
Yes, your 1/36 barrel should stabilize a 240 gr. bullet.  I say that because my 1/38 Marlin Cowboy shoots the Lyman 429667 well at 300 meters. Weight is close to 250 gr in w.w alloy.  Velocity was close to 1,200 f.p.s.





w44wcf

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  That is great shooting!! Was there any wind to deal with?

 Monday I was off work so I piddled with the 44-40 with the NOE bullet and 2.2cc of Swiss 3Fg. This load runs a little over 1300 fps. I've been shooting my 200 yd. gong primarily from a prone position and fashioned a make-shift sling to help steady. I was thrilled with the results of the load. Never knew BP could produce such accurate loads. My 53 year old eyes don't do open sights like they once did, and I had to hold in to the wind a little, but I was till quite pleased:
 
 

 CHT

[w44wcf]

I was disappointed with my 200m shooting with the Henry this time. I need more practice. However, the 100m is easy to the point of being boring.
My smokeless 44-40 load is 6 grs of Red Dot under a Lyman 427666 RNFP. 33 grs FFg with the same bullet. Didn't shoot any BP loads this time. I up the ladder and use the 200 yd setting.

I rarely shoot anything from the bench once I've established '0'. I EXPECT my rifles to shoot well from the bench. I'm more interested in how they perform in my hands. My best shooting position is the military sitting position with ankles crossed. It's as stable as prone for me, especially if I'm slung up.

I've never verified the ROT in my Uberti Henry, but after cleaning the bore, I had a peek and it appears to be quite slow - likely 1x36".

PJ Hardtack,
I have tried the 427666 bullet and have not found to be as accurate at 100+ yards as some other .44-40 bullets, notably the Magma 200, RCBS 200, Lyman 427098 and the Accurate 43-215C.  However, its heavier brother, the 429667 (see previous post), does very well at longer distances.

A few years ago, this target was posted by Lonesome Henry fired at 150 yards. He had been disappointed in the over 100 yard accuracy he was getting with the 427666 so he bought the 427098 mold and posted these comparison targets. Needless to say he was very pleased with the 427098.



If you still have some of those 43-215C's they should perform well as they have for me, even with Goex powder as this 300M target indicates.



w44wcf


 

[w44wcf]

 That is great shooting!! Was there any wind to deal with?......  
  
 CHT

CHT,
I don't recall any noticeable wind. However my 68 year old eyes back then did need some assistance in the aiming department so I mounted a 10X scope since I really wanted to see how accurate that recipe was.

The other neat thing about using a scope was that I could see the arrival of the bullets and the impacts in real time.  



I got the idea for trying that heavier bullet after seeing this neat video.
 


The bullet needs to be deep seated past the crimp groove to feed through the magazine. I then crimp it in place with the lee FCD.



The 240 gr Magma has the crimp groove in the proper place and would likely shoot as well but I did not  have enough left to give them a try. They are more skimpy in the lube department so might not work as well with black. Swiss or Olde E would help.

w44wcf

[OD#3]

Thanks again for a great range report!  It is very gratifying to see what that rifle can do, especially considering where it came from.  For those of you who don't know, that rifle spent its early years as the property of a fella who supplied props for movies.  When I got it, the action was fouled something awful from being fed blanks.  I've often wondered if it appeared in any movies I've seen, and I was eager to answer the question of how well it would shoot.  By happy coincidence, even though I had to trade it off before finding out, Cholla Hill wound up with it, letting me live vicariously through his excellent range reports.   

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

Thanks again for a great range report!  It is very gratifying to see what that rifle can do, especially considering where it came from.  For those of you who don't know, that rifle spent its early years as the property of a fella who supplied props for movies.  When I got it, the action was fouled something awful from being fed blanks.  I've often wondered if it appeared in any movies I've seen, and I was eager to answer the question of how well it would shoot.  By happy coincidence, even though I had to trade it off before finding out, Cholla Hill wound up with it, letting me live vicariously through his excellent range reports.   

 Believe me, the range reports are ALL my pleasure!

 CHT