Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 11, 2017, 07:30:20 pm

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Barracks (Moderators: Delmonico, Pitspitr)  |  Topic: Black Powder Metallic Cartridge Breach Loading Rifles (photos fixed) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Black Powder Metallic Cartridge Breach Loading Rifles (photos fixed)  (Read 4616 times)
Cowtown Scout
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


TEXAS By GOD


« on: January 05, 2016, 07:34:01 pm »


I had a presentation for the Boy Scouts as part of our Winter Cavalry Camp that ended at Fort Richardson in Jacksboro Texas.  This year was the Black Power Metallic Cartridge Breach Loading Rifles.  I had 25 rifles and starting with the last Rifled Musket produced at the Springfield Armory and ending with the first smokeless cartridge rifles adopted by the US.  I’ve taken the presentation outline and added photos I took after the presentation.  The lighting in the room was low so the photos are on the dark side.  Hope you enjoy another installment of a portion of the historical arms that are currently in my care.
Scout




Black Powder Cartridge Breach Loading Rifles
12/20/2015 (Revised 01/05/2016)



•   Model 1863 type 2 (1864) Rifled Musket, Springfield, dated 1864, .58 cal.
This was the last model of muzzle loaders manufactured by Springfield. Over 250,000 made at the Springfield Armory.

•   Model 1865 Joslyn Rifle, Springfield, made 1865, .50-60 Rim Fire cal. (will take the .56-50 spencer ammunition), first thought to be a conversion it was discovered in 1972 that this rifle was specifically designed and built for metallic cartridges, original production of 3,007 RF made in 1865 and then 1,600 of them were converted to .50-70 in 1871 for sale in Europe to France.

Post-Civil War the US Army had warehouses full of muzzle loading rifled muskets.  Postwar period was a time of drastic budget cuts.  Springfield Master Armor Erskine S. Allin developed a mechanism to convert muzzle loading Rifled Muskets into Breach loading Rifles.  This hinged breach block resulted in the nickname “Trapdoor Springfield”.



•   Model 1865 Trapdoor, 1st Allin Conversion, Springfield, made 1865 with 5,000 model 1861s converted, used original barrel, .58-60 rim fire cal.

•   Model 1866 Trapdoor, 2nd Allin Conversion, Springfield, made 1867-1869 (1867) with 52,000 model 1863 type 2s converted (half were sold to European Nations for use in Franco-Prussian War – the remaining 26,000 were issued to US Army), more robust and simple action with original barrel drilled and sleeved from .58 to .50 cal.,  50-70 center fire cal.



•   Model 1868 Trapdoor, Springfield, made 1869-1870 (1869),  .50-70 cal., with suitable Civil War arms for conversion dwindling the 1868 was made new with some minor parts from Civil War arms used, reduced barrel length from 40” to 32-1/2”,  approximately 52,000 were made.

•   Model 1870 Navy Rolling Block type 2, Springfield, made 1870-1871, .50-70 cal., Type 1 production of 10,000 rifles and Type 2 production of 12,000.


Logged

GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA
Cowtown Scout
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


TEXAS By GOD


« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2016, 07:38:15 pm »

1870 Ordnance Board was convened and tasked with reviewing various breach loading mechanisms to determine which was best suited for use by the US Army.  Four designs were chosen to be evaluated with Springfield Armory to manufacture the arms for field testing and evaluation by the US Army from 1870-1872.  The four were the Trapdoor 1870, Sharps 1870, Rolling Block 1870 and the Ward Burton 1871.
   
   [Somehow I managed not to get a photo of the 1870 Trapdoor]

•   Model 1870 Trapdoor, Springfield, made 1870-1871 (1870), .50-70 cal., a slightly modified version of the model 1868 (slightly longer action) and was essentially the control rifle all the others would be compared, Springfield made 1,020 rifles and 341 carbines for field trial.



•   Model 1870 Sharps Rifle, Springfield, made 1870-1871 (1870), .50-70 cal., the Ordnance Department procured 700 sharps percussion actions modified for metallic cartridges as well as 300 newly made metallic cartridge actions for Springfield’s use and the remainder of the 1,000 rifles was all Springfield, they also produced 308 carbines with converted actions.  

•   Model 1871 Ward Burton Rifle, Springfield, made 1872, .50-70 cal., (first bolt action used by US in combat), misc. parts from CW arms and trapdoors were used on this rifle, 1,011 rifles and 312 carbines were made by Springfield.

•   Model 1870 Rolling Block, Springfield, made 1870-1871, .50-70 cal., the Ordnance Department obtained the manufacture rights for the rolling block from Remington and Springfield made 1,008 rifles and 314 carbines for the 1870 trail arms.  [Don’t have one in Collection - Yet]  



•   Model 1871 Rolling Block, Springfield, made 1872, .50-70 cal., the model 1871 was produced for the National Guard and Militia units and not issued to the regular Army, 10,000 were made.  

•   Model 1871 Spencer Rifle, Springfield, made 1871, .56-50 cal., not part of the Army trials however there were 1,109 rifles made from CW carbine actions, they were never issued to troops.
Logged

GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA
Cowtown Scout
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


TEXAS By GOD


« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 07:41:29 pm »

After the trials ended in 1872 the 1870 Ordnance Board reviewed the feedback acquired and determined that the Trapdoor action was the best suited for US Army use.  They also changed the caliber from .50-70 to .45-70 as the new standard which remained from 1873-1893.  Thus the first standard arm was adopted for the US Army as the Model 1873 Springfield “Trapdoor” in .45-70.



•   Model 1873 Trapdoor (early), Springfield, made 1873-1877 (1874), .45-70 cal., approximately 51,180 rifles and 22,517 carbines were made.

•   Model 1873 Trapdoor (late-1877), Springfield, made 1878-1884 (1881), .45-70 cal., approximately 130,269 rifles and 17,384 carbines were made.  

1878 Magazine Board of Ordnance Officers was convened and tasked with reviewing various designs for repeating magazine feed rifles for possible adoption for use by the US Army.  Many rifles were submitted and tested for endurance, accuracy and rapidity of fire.  They all had to have a magazine cut off to allow single loading.  Four designs were chosen for further consideration and testing.  The Winchester 1876 lever action, and bolt actions by Remington, Sharps and Winchester all with tubular magazines.  

•   First Model Army Winchester Hotchkiss Rifle, made 1879 .45-70 cal. as joint venture between Winchester and Springfield; they made 500 rifles and 500 carbines for testing. The rifle barrels were 32-1/4” long.  Safety and magazine cut-off is on the right side of stock.  [Don’t have one in Collection - Yet]  



•   Model 1879 type 1, First Model Navy Contract Winchester Hotchkiss Rifle, Winchester/Springfield, made 1879-1880 (1879), .45-70 cal., rifle barrels were 28-3/4” long, they made 2,500 Navy rifles.

•   Second Model Army Winchester Hotchkiss Carbines, many first models rifles and carbines were converted to second model carbines in 1880, between 400 and 600 second model carbines made 1880-1881, the safety and mag cut-off was changed to two separate levers on the rear of the action.  Previous design in side of stock resulted in too many broken stocks.  Col. Mackenzie’s 4th US Cavalry was issued between 343 and 522 second model carbines in 1881, which was the largest number issued to any single Army unit.  Mackenzie was a major proponent of repeaters instead of single shot. [Don’t have one in Collection]  

•   Model 1879 type 2, Second Model Navy Winchester Hotchkiss Rifle, Winchester/Springfield, made 1880-1881 (1881), .45-70 cal., 981 type 2 rifles purchased by the Navy; they stayed in use through the mid-1880s and in inventory up through 1892.



•   Model 1879 Remington – Lee Navy Rifle, First Contract (300), actions made by Sharps 1880, rifles assembled by Remington 1881 using SF Trapdoor barrel and sights, marked Lee Arms, .45-70 cal.

•   Model 1879 Remington – Lee Navy Rifle, 2nd Contract (700), actions made by Sharps 1880, rifles assembled by Remington 1882 using Remington rolling block barrel and sights, marked Lee Arms, .45-70 cal.
Logged

GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA
Cowtown Scout
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


TEXAS By GOD


« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 07:47:47 pm »



Army Board rejected the Remington Keene rifle in favor of the Winchester Hotchkiss Rifle for testing.  However the Navy contracted for a version of the Remington Keene with a shorter barrel.

•   Model 1880 Remington Keene Navy Rifle, Remington, made 1880, .45-70 cal., only 250 rifles made and they remained in service until about 1888.

After testing arms from 1878-1881 the Trapdoor remained as the main Army rifle but the testing developed enough interest in further investigation.  In 1881 a new Board with more than just Ordnance Officers was convened with the same task as the 1878 board.  After 15 months and review of 40 rifles the Board in 1882 selected three bolt action rifles for limited production and field testing.  They were the Chaffee-Reece, the Remington-Lee and the Third model Winchester Hotchkiss (3rd model not in Collection - Yet).

•   Model 1882 Chaffee-Reece Rifle, Springfield, made 1883-1884 (1884), .45-70 cal., total of 753 rifles made.

•   Model 1882 Army Remington-Lee Rifle, made 1884, .45-70 cal., total of 750 rifles were made. [Don’t have one in Collection- Yet]  



•   Model 1885 Remington – Lee Navy Rifle, made 1889-1893 (1890), .45-70 cal., based on the Army 1882 trail rifle the Navy order 1,650 Navy model 1885 rifles in 1888.

The 1881 board did not adopt any of the tested bolt action rifles for replacement of the Trapdoor and by 1886 all the trial bolt actions were out of service.

•   Model 1884 Trapdoor, Springfield, made 1884-1890 (1888); .45-70 cal., approximately 143,620 rifles and 3,500 carbines were made.



•   Model 1888 Trapdoor, Springfield, made 1890-1893 (1892), .45-70 cal., approximately 34,121 rifles and 5,000 carbines were made.

A Magazine Gun Board was convened in late 1890 to find a suitable bolt action, magazine rifle for Military Service.   In 1892 after review of 53 submitted rifles all of which had to be .30 caliber and smokeless powder the Board choose the Krag-Jorgensen Rifle. There was an outcry about adopting a foreign rifle design.  Another Board was convened in 1893 and received 14 rifles for testing.  None proved equal or superior to the Krag-Jorgensen thus the Model 1892 Krag Rifle became the first smokeless cartridge rifle adopted for the US Military.

•   Model 1892 Krag Rifle, Springfield, made 1894-1895 (1894), 30-40 Army cal., total production of the model 1892 was 24,562.  Most of the model 1892 rifles were converted to the model 1896 which included removing the full length ram rod.



The Navy convened a Small Arms Board in 1894 to evaluate calibers and rifles.  After evaluation of 11 rifles they adopted the model 1895 6mm Lee Navy.

•   Model 1895 Winchester Lee Navy, made 1896-1998 (1897), 6 mm cal., Navy contract for initial order was for 10,000 in 1896 and then another 5,000 in 1898  and Navy changed to Krags in 1899 and the Marines changed to Krags in 1900.
Logged

GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA
rbertalotto
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1119


WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2016, 02:34:25 pm »

Wow! This was fantastic! I recently visited the Springfield Armory Museum here in Massachusetts. Amazing place to visit and your collection would do them well!

Thanks for sharing  and the history that goes along with them.
Logged

Roy B
South of Boston
www.rvbprecision.com
SASS #93544
RattlesnakeJack
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1525



WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2016, 02:41:54 pm »

An excellent display (and set of posts) showcasing a very impressive collection my friend!

Even the most basic image editing software will permit adjustment of brightness and contrast levels to largely overcome the problems with your photos resulting from the poor lighting.  In this case, increasing brightness while reducing contrast reveals a lot more detail -



(I find that I seldom post - or otherwise use - digital photos without first tweaking them at least a bit ....)

Logged

Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/
Cowtown Scout
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


TEXAS By GOD


« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2016, 02:30:27 pm »

An excellent display (and set of posts) showcasing a very impressive collection my friend!

Even the most basic image editing software will permit adjustment of brightness and contrast levels to largely overcome the problems with your photos resulting from the poor lighting.  In this case, increasing brightness while reducing contrast reveals a lot more detail -



(I find that I seldom post - or otherwise use - digital photos without first tweaking them at least a bit ....)

Thank You Sir.  I had used the autocorrect just to lighten them up a bit before posting the first time but upon your suggestion I went back and worked on them some more manually. Could not get them to look as good as you managed on that one photo but they are all now lighter than before.
Logged

GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA
Cowtown Scout
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


TEXAS By GOD


« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2016, 02:36:02 pm »

Wow! This was fantastic! I recently visited the Springfield Armory Museum here in Massachusetts. Amazing place to visit and your collection would do them well!

Thanks for sharing  and the history that goes along with them.

Thanks Roy I'm glad you liked it. I hope to visit the Springfield Armory Museum some day.
Logged

GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA
Trailrider
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2014



WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2016, 03:58:00 pm »

WOW! Thanks for the lesson and especially the photos!  Smiley Smiley Smiley
Logged

Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

Your obedient servant,
Trailrider,
Bvt. Lt. Col. Commanding,
Southern District
Dept. of the Platte, GAF
Silver Creek Slim
Buckaroo
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17065



« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 03:44:17 pm »

Very nice.  Smiley

Slim

Logged

NCOWS 2329, WartHog, SCORRS, SBSS, BHR, GAF, RBCS, Dirty RATS, BTBM, IPSAC, Cosie-in-training

I love the smell of Black Powder in the morning!
Cowtown Scout
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


TEXAS By GOD


« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2017, 03:33:42 pm »

This is just a bump for those that may not have seen this before.
Logged

GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA
Cowtown Scout
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


TEXAS By GOD


« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2017, 12:02:36 am »

Added another Black Powder Cartridge Breach Loading Rifle since my last update:

•   Model 1861 Sharps & Hankins Navy Rifle, made 1862, .52 cal., only about 700 rifles made, used by the Marines.




























Logged

GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA
RattlesnakeJack
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1525



WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2017, 01:24:21 pm »

Very nice indeed, Sir!   Shocked
Logged

Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier
Old West ClipArt & History Website:  http://rattlesnakejacks.com/
PJ Hardtack
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Online Online

Posts: 3292


« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2017, 03:39:32 pm »

IN "Civil War Carbines - Myth vs Reality", Peter Schiffers rated the Sharps & Hankins first overall in accuracy, followed by the Burnside and the '63 Sharps.

This compares favourably with the Ordnance Department Survey which rated the Spencer first, the Sharps & Hankns 2nd, the '63 Sharps 3rd and the Burnside a distant 6th.

He shot eleven original carbines at 50m, 100m and 200m with ammo made to original specs. In the case of the rimfires, he had cases made to accept off set blanks.
Logged

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne
Cowtown Scout
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


TEXAS By GOD


« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2017, 11:49:02 am »

Forgot to bump this one after fixing the photos like I did the other threads.
Logged

GAF #510, STORM #98, GOFWG #126, SSS #211, SBSS #1713, CVV
Life Member: SASS, LSA, ORA, Whittington Center, LSFSC, Founders Club (Gold)
Benefactor Member: NRA and TSRA, Past President TSRA
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Barracks (Moderators: Delmonico, Pitspitr)  |  Topic: Black Powder Metallic Cartridge Breach Loading Rifles (photos fixed) « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.069 seconds with 21 queries.