USFA Walker value

[hatman]

This one looks a lot less "antiqued" than the one the original poster posted. Is the serial number font the same on both?

Yes, they look the same to me, but mine is a bit rougher.

Hey Bill - you wanna swap guns?   

[yahoody]

Suspect both guns have a maker's mark some where.  Paper is easy to duplicate...steel not so much.

[Buckaroo Lou]

I am enjoying this post as it has turned into a really fine mystery. I am hoping it can be successfully resolved.

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[hatman]

In the meantime, I'm off to the range to shoot mine some more. 

[Cruizer Bill]

I removed the grips and the only thing I found was another serial number on the grip frame.  It matches all the other serial numbers.   I took out my good magnifying glass under strong light and looked for any markings on the gun.  there are absolutely none.  No sign of any manufacturer's or proof marks being removed.  The parts used in this gun never were marked in any way. 

Any former US Patent Firearms Company employees out there?  Come clean with us, did you ever build any revolvers as prototypes our of unmarked parts? 

Why would someone build a revolver out of totally unmarked parts, then etch the cylinder to match the originals but say it was US Patent instead of Colt Patent, then antique the gun, then build a wooden case for it, and then print PHONY owner's manuals? 

BTW, when I took off the grips and looked at the wood underneath, it is BEAUTIFUL work!  Wonderful wood work, good wood! 

[yahoody]

Why would someone build a revolver out of totally unmarked parts, then etch the cylinder to match the originals but say it was US Patent instead of Colt Patent, then antique the gun, then build a wooden case for it, and then print PHONY owner's manuals? 

The Italians build thousands of such guns and parts gun kits, many of which are imported to the US.  Cylinders are rolled in Italy.
Cases can be had in many places.

http://www.billscases.com/

Manual?  No clue on the manual.  But I'd bet USPFA had them printed, flaws and all.  Easy to get a manual.

[LonesomePigeon]

The cylinder scene would not have been done by a counterfielter. It is a roll stamp that pretty much all the replica manufacturers have, so the cylinder scene is already there before a counterfieter even gets their hands on it.   

Did you remove the trigger guard? Some manufacturers put a lot of markings under the trigger guard.

[Cruizer Bill]

Hatman,
Can you remove your trigger guard and see if anything is there?  I checked under the grips and only found another matching serial number.

[yahoody]

try pictures here to compare both gun's serial numbers.

[Pettifogger]

I like the Lifetime Warranty.   

[yahoody]

and a "historial letter".   

[GaryG]

I've never seen a BP manual but looks authentic to me.

[Cruizer Bill]

I asked this question on another board and found another fellow with a USPFA black powder revolver.  His manual matches mine in appearance:

http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/16397/real-patent-firearms-gun?page=1&scrollTo=184470

[LonesomePigeon]

Cruzier Bill, are you going to shoot this revolver? If you do, please post a report.

Hatman, have you shot any paper targets?

I still think these could be USFA and I'm interested in how accurate they shoot.

[hatman]

Cruzier Bill, are you going to shoot this revolver? If you do, please post a report.

Hatman, have you shot any paper targets?

I still think these could be USFA and I'm interested in how accurate they shoot.

It shoots as well as most of my bp revolvers.
I still plan to take off the trigger guard looking for marks, but lately I've been enjoying my newly acquired flintlock pistol. 

[Hoof Hearted]

Here's something to ponder.........

Notice the page from the manual entitled NOTICE OF FACTORY PROOF ?
I don't see and proof marks on either revolver.
If the USPFA manual say's that there are proof marks that should be left alone and if found to have had them removed the revolver or parts would be replaced then why would both these "USPFA" revolvers have no proofs?

HH

[LonesomePigeon]

I don't think the USA requires proofmarks on cap n' ball revolvers since they aren't considered firearms. Colt 2nd Generation cap n' ball revolvers didn't have proofmarks, just the manufacturer's name. IMHO lack of proofmarks could be considered evidence for these being unfinished USPFA/USFA guns.


 

[Chain-Fire]

In my opinion, your 3rd Dragoon serial number 1921 had its origin at USPFA.  It is in a known serial number range for USPFA Dragoons. Serial numbers 1936 and 1950 were special USPFA Custom Shop Dragoons embellished by master engraver Dennis Kies. Also the "U S PATENT" roll engraved cylinder is another indicator.

It is also my opinion that, although your 3rd Dragoon started out in life at U. S. Patent Fire Arms, it was never completed by this organization. Instead, it was dumped onto the marketplace along with dozens of other unfinished USPFA percussion revolvers in the 2000 - 2001 timeframe. These revolvers were in the white and carried no barrel address or frame markings. Some had blank cylinders while others had roll engraved cylinders with the USMR and U S PATENT etched cartouche which would have encircled the serial number.

Many of these revolvers later acquired COLT'S PATENT stamps on their frames and Colt / Hartford barrel addresses.  Some of the revolvers like your Dragoon remained unmarked and were completed by various craftsmen in a variety of configurations, while others were blued and case hardened by Turnbull Restorations.

[LonesomePigeon]

Chain-fire that is some great information. Thank you for posting.