When was the Schofield...

[Cowtown]

...offered in a barrel length less than 7 inches?

I have read that all the Schofields that sold to Army contracts were 7 inch barrel models and that the majority of 5 inch Schofields were surplus guns purchased from the Army and cut down by purchasers such as Wells Fargo to fit their needs. I have also read where these surplus purchases sold by the Army also happened around the year 1898. Were these guns also sold to private contracts from Army surpluses before 1898 when the Army decided to go with the Colt?

Did Smith and Wesson ever offer 5 inch Schofield models or even 3 1/2 inch barreled models for civilian sales or were these shorter barrel length offerings the result of aftermarket gunsmithing, as it were? If these were available from S&W,  about when were these manufactured as such?

I'm curious as I cannot find much information on this.

Thanks for any assistance.

[St. George]

You won't find any information because those 3 1/2" barrelled ones are Italian fantasy pieces - like so many weapons emanating from there.

They're designed to appeal to the American C&WAS market - just like the 'Schofields' in .38 Special.

Get a copy of 'The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson' - by Supica and Null - many Public Libraries have copies - and get a copy of 'The History of Smith & Wesson' by Jinks, while you're at it.

Both will explain the actual history of that revolver - without the Italian dressing...

Scouts Out!

[Blair]

St George,

Thank you!
When this subject came up, I went and checked the length of the extractor rod housing on my repro Schofield.
3 and 1/4 inch is just about the shortest these can be cut to, without cutting into the ejector rod housing.
I also checked two original #3 model 3 Russian revolvers I have. These would allow shortening the Barrel to 3 and 1/2 inches before cutting into the housing.
One other thing offered by the manufactures for these factory shortened barreled firearms was a slightly faster rate of twist in those shorter barrels.
My best,
 Blair

[Advertising]

[Coffinmaker]

St George,
While I am normally (Normal?? Me?? ) a Thousand Island Dressing sort of guy, there are times when I REALLY like Italian dressing.
Especially on Pietta Salid.  Yum, swell Italian Dressing!! 

Coffinmaker 

[Blair]

While I can't pretend to speak for everyone on this forum, I personally will always opt for the historically correct options over the Italian and/or American promoted fantasy pieces.
Please note, not one "happy or smiley face" was harmed or misused in this posting and I am still on the subject topic.
My best,
 Blair

[Cowtown]

St. George,

Thank you for the advice on the two books. I will certainly look into that soon. Part of the reason I'm curious is because of my OCD with respect to period correct guns for my purposes. I always appreciate all the helpful advice I can get.

[St. George]

Then expand your reference library and make certain they've all got a decent bibliography.

The magazines don't add much beyond fantasy, and most 'gun shop commandos' don't know their ass from a warm rock, but there have been great books written in the past ten or so years that should help.

Scouts Out!

[Cowtown]

A couple months ago I picked up a copy of Mike Venturino's 'Shooting Sixguns of the Old West' and Peter Schiffers' 'Civil War Revolvers' and love these resources. I look forward to many more. Lots of good stuff in these books.

I generally agree on the magazines but Mike Beliveau certainly writes some darn good stuff I have found.  And I have never met a gun shop expert who knows Old West guns any better than any car salesman can explain jeeps to me.

I am fairly new to the Schofield revolver but there just is not a whole lot of info out there that is not redundant. The finer details seem to be missing from "normal" discussions.



 

[Blair]

Cowtown,

Look for the books St. George suggested.
These specialize in the historical facts regarding S&W revolvers and their calibers and barrel lengths they manufacture these in.
This is the best information you can have.
My best,
 Blair

[Flint]

All the Uberti S&W breaktops share the Schofield parts, even though the originals did not.  The Uberti Russian uses the Uberti Schofield ejector system.  The only real difference being the latch and the grip shape.  They could easily make an American with the Schofield grip and the Russian top end...

Incidently, my original S&W Russian was aquired without wood grips.  The Uberti grips fit it perfectly.

[Virginia Gentleman]

I thought that the surplus Schofields were sold to security firms and bank guards with the barrel in some cases cut to 5" for easier drawing from the holste?  I think I saw a 5" original Wells Fargo in a book years ago.

[Cowtown]

I thought that the surplus Schofields were sold to security firms and bank guards with the barrel in some cases cut to 5" for easier drawing from the holste?  I think I saw a 5" original Wells Fargo in a book years ago.

That is basically my conclusion as well, with the barrels being cut to five inches only after the sale . I'm just unclear as to when these surplus sales from the Army to outside purchasers occured. I have read as early as 1880 but more likely around 1898.

[St. George]

Ah, the wonder of reference books...

The Schofields that were sold off, were sold sometime in the 1880s to large dealers like Schuyler, Hartley and Graham and Bannerman - often having their barrels cut to 5" and then nickel-plated to better withstand the hard life on the Frontier - the plating being somewhat more weather-resistant, besides making them more 'saleable'.

Several hundred went to Wells, Fargo & Co., with shortened 5" barrels (there are 'many' fakes of those), and the San Francisco Police wound up with some that were eventually absorbed into the California Militia after the Sandlot Riots.

As an aside - the Schofield stayed in Service until the Spanish-American War in original configuration, by the way - serving with several Volunteer units - and are noted to have still filled the holsters of Regulars as late as 1887.

The Army had wanted more of them and tried to order them in 1878, but Smith & Wesson demurred, as they were more invested in their newest revolver - the New Model Number Three - that was introduced in that year.

Scouts Out!

[Jake MacReedy]

Just to add another note, if I remember correctly, only about 100 Schofields were made that were not part of the original Government contract, and they all had 7" barrels like the government-contracted ones.

Regards,
Jake

[Virginia Gentleman]

This is of course excepting the modern Smith and Wesson produced Schofields that were all made with 7 inch barrels.

[St. George]

No - they weren't 'all' made with 7" barrels.

S&W built them in nickel, with 7" barrels, and even built the 'Wells Fargo Edition' with 5" barrels - shipped in a 'Heritage Series' box.

Their first edition came in an oak display case, with a lot of papers and a small brass coin.

Scouts Out!

[Virginia Gentleman]

Really? I have never seen a modern S&W with a 5" barrel, but if so, I stand corrected. 

[Cowtown]

Ah, the wonder of reference books...

The Schofields that were sold off, were sold sometime in the 1880s to large dealers like Schuyler, Hartley and Graham and Bannerman - often having their barrels cut to 5" and then nickel-plated to better withstand the hard life on the Frontier - the plating being somewhat more weather-resistant, besides making them more 'saleable'.

Several hundred went to Wells, Fargo & Co., with shortened 5" barrels (there are 'many' fakes of those), and the San Francisco Police wound up with some that were eventually absorbed into the California Militia after the Sandlot Riots.

As an aside - the Schofield stayed in Service until the Spanish-American War in original configuration, by the way - serving with several Volunteer units - and are noted to have still filled the holsters of Regulars as late as 1887.

The Army had wanted more of them and tried to order them in 1878, but Smith & Wesson demurred, as they were more invested in their newest revolver - the New Model Number Three - that was introduced in that year.

Scouts Out!

St George,

Just the info for which I was searching. Thanks!

I'm working on my own reference collection as well. Just opened a package that contained Rattenbury's Packing Iron. What a magnificent book! Now, on to other suggested titles. 

Thanks again.

[St. George]

It's a good start.

Numerous titles on numerous topics have been recommended both here, on the 'Colt Forum' as well as in the 'Historical Society Forum'.

Matter of fact, you can pretty much pick your topic of research, and someone's done a book (or books) on it, and someone has already given it a review, so in that light, you're set.

Stay away from the terms:  'I read it once...' - 'I seem to remember...' - 'Somebody told me...' - 'A guy at the gun shop said...' and my all-time, personal favorite - 'I saw in this movie...' - a sub-set of which is - 'If it's good enough for the Duke...'.

None of these comments have any validity whatsoever, and the 'John Ford Reference Library' has done more to cloud the true history of the Old West than any other method - purposely choosing people, places, manner of dress, tribes, and weapons so completely out of place that it's ludicrous.

With reference books, the writer has to research and has to cite sources, so there's validity and bibliographies at your fingertips, should you want to dig deeper.

One of the big problems is that these are getting ever more expensive, so keep your eyes open, because when some of these titles hit the secondary market, their prices went up ten-fold.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!