Author Topic: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering  (Read 7849 times)

Offline major

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Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« on: August 17, 2015, 08:10:54 PM »
On my Henry the carrier block does not always drop down all the way when I am levering the gun.  This especially happens when I am levering slowly.  I have replaced the leaf spring that rides on the lifter lever but it did not help.  Is there another part that could be warn that could cause this to happen?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Terry
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2015, 08:56:23 PM »
The Carrier Block in a Toggle Link Rifle is powered down first by a whack from the front face of the lever arm, then by the lever side spring
the rest of the way down.  You haven't mentioned if your Rifle is stock or had had some modifications.
If there is wear or scoring on the Carrier Block, In the mortice the carrier rides in, or on the bearing surfaces at the lever pivot, where the lever, carrier arm and the pivot screw all meet, the spring may not be able to overcome that drag.  Also, as the carrier picks up some fouling and or the mortice begins to foul it may get sticky and stop about half way down.  These problems are made worse in a stock rifle that does not have "positive slam down" built into it.
So, there are a number of things that can be causing your troubles.  Without having the rifle apart in front of me, I can't tell you which, or maybe all of these conditions may be giving you grief.  You should however, consider adding "positive slam down" if yours is a stock rifle.

Coffinmaker

Forgot;  If what you are using for side springs are the reduced power wire type, you most definitely need positive slam down.

Offline major

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 10:15:06 PM »
Coffenmaker
This rifle is stock but it has seen a lot of use.  It is my reenacting gun and I must have shot over 20,000 blanks out of it.  The last time I used it at a reenactment I fired 690 blanks out of it for the weekend.  The gun is at least 17 years old and I have been to a bunch of reenactments with it.  Never heard of the term “Positive slam down” exactly what is it?
I will try taking it apart and use some extra fine emery cloth to smooth out the area there the carrier block moves in the receiver to see if this will help.
Terry
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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #3 on: Today at 04:53:19 AM »

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2015, 11:02:23 PM »
You don't say what the caliber is or what your cleaning regimen is.  But, it sounds a lot like fouling of the carrier.  A good cleaning and polish of the carrier & frame might be in order.
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee;
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Offline major

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 07:33:01 AM »
You don't say what the caliber is or what your cleaning regimen is.  But, it sounds a lot like fouling of the carrier.  A good cleaning and polish of the carrier & frame might be in order.
FM
It is a Uberti in 44-40.  After a weekend reenactment I take it right down to the firing pin for cleaning.
Terry
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Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2015, 11:16:10 AM »
FM
It is a Uberti in 44-40.  After a weekend reenactment I take it right down to the firing pin for cleaning.


I'm at a loss then.  Only time I've had the same situation, the carrier was crudded up.  Once I polished it, the carrier would fall through the frame
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee;
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2015, 02:21:17 PM »
Wellllllllll ......... if it sticking when the rifle is clean ............ I'm with Fingers.  A SWAG (Scientific Wild A$$ Guess) That is also a Military Acronym, widely used to describe something unknown.  Like a UFO. 
So ... My SWAG would be simple wear causing something to drag.  Drag is not necessarily a dude in a dress  :o

Positive Slam Down is achieved when the Upper lever face near the link pivot point is in CONSTANT contact the the carrier block arm, ALL the way down.  There are FOUR ways to achieve positive slam down. 1.  Weld a little button at the tip of the rear face of the Carrier Block Arm and dress it to fit.  (should see what happens when you screw that up) 2.  Weld a little button on the front face of the lever arm, where it contacts the rear face of the carrier block arm. (screw that up, yer buyin an even more expensive part).  3.  Drill and tap the area of the lever that contacts the carrier block arm and insert an 8-32 set screw ...... adjust. (this weakens the lever) 4.  Drill and tap the upper rear face of the carrier bock arm where it contacts the lever.  Drill ALL the way through and tap for an 8-32 set screw.  Insert the set screw with the socket end "down" and dress the end that hits the lever flat.  Put the set screw in with blue or purple LocTite ...... adjust.
Adjust so with the lever closed against the lower tang, you can just "feel" tiny movement in the Carrier Block...... job done.
With this simple modification, the Carrier Block cannot "stick."

Coffinmaker

Offline major

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2015, 08:26:39 PM »
I cleaned it up and smoothed out the inside of the receiver where the carrier rides.  It is working better but it will still stick every once in a wile.  It does not go all the way down especially if I lever the gun slowly. 
Coffenmaker
I could not quite wrap my brain around your explanation of positive slam down.  I would probably have to see it to understand it.
Terry
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2015, 12:19:40 PM »
Major,
I'll be working in the shop (on MY guns) today or tomorrow.  I'll make up a Carrier Block Arm with PSD.  Get it done I'll have you send my your address.

Coffinmaker

Offline Pettifogger

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2015, 06:05:45 PM »
PSD?  Is that what the dudes in a dress get every month?    :o

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2015, 08:26:58 PM »
Pettifogger,

Yep.  That be it!!  ;D

Coffinmaker

Offline will52100

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 07:46:26 AM »
That's odd, can't say I've ever seen that on a well broken in Henry.  I have seen a bunch, mine included that the carriers were too tightly fit to the mortice and would foul to a stop pretty quick.  I disk sanded the sides of mine to loosen up a touch, test fire and see how long it took it to foul out, then sand a bit more till I could go 4-500 rounds of BP without stop.  Mine's a 45 colt.  I've even seen a henry in 45 colt that never shot anything but smokeless foul the lifter.

With the round count and age, could it be a worn cam surface on the lever?  Or maybe worn linkage?  If you've never had an issue before something is out of spec.
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2015, 12:05:20 PM »
Will,
Actually fouling the Carrier Block is very very common.  Most toggle link rifles can and do regularly foul the Carrier Block.  the question is whether it's bad enough to stop the rifle. 
It is also very common for that heathen fad smokeless stuff to foul the Carrier Block.  Trailboss, actually doesn't play well with petroleum based lubricants and gets gummy pretty quick.  Others, not so much.  Before being enlightened to the Dark Side, I could run my main Comp rifle most of the season with no more than a drop of oil.
Some 45 rifles blow-by worse than others.  Uberti runs their chamber cutters a smidgen on the large side.  Very generous.  Then there are the other variables, lube, type of lube, enough lube, powder manufacturer, the list goes on.  No two rifles are the same.
Then, in our thread's case, it's a 44-40.  There should be no fouling issue with the Carrier Block, and there isn't.  Just excess wear somewhere in the lock-works.  Although, with 44-40 being used as blanks, I don't know if the case mouth actually seals the chamber.  If not, it's blowing-by like a 45 and needs a little help.  I'm also not necessarily a fan of sanding away enough Carrier Block until it rattles around in the mortice either.  I'd think a little maintenance a better plan

Coffinmaker 

Offline will52100

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2015, 02:47:06 PM »
Want to make it plain I didn't sand the carrier block till it "rattled around", mearly opened up the tollerances a bit.  I have seen one that was sanded so much I would have replaced it.  Most carriers I've seen new are way too tight.  What I did was little more than stoneing and polishing the carrier.  I get very little blow by on my 45 Henry, but when it was new I couldn't go more than 100 rounds without the carrier fouling to a stop.  When I took just a bit off and polished it up I can go all day, and the carrier doesn't "rattle" around.

You do have a point though, it's very easy to take way too much off.

As for the OP's question, I'd inspect the cam surfaces of the leaver for wear.  My rifle has somewhere north of 5K rounds, that's where I stoped counting several years back.
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms

Offline major

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 06:42:31 PM »
Well the positive slam down modified lifter lever that Coffinmaker sent me came today.  I put it in my gun and adjusted the set screw and now it works perfect.  I cannot get the carrier block to stick at all.  This will be great for when I use my gun reenacting the Civil War, because after 100 blanks the carrier block would tend to get stuck.  A big “THANK YOU” to Coffinmaker.
Terry
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Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2015, 07:15:07 PM »
I'm on the sidelines here, but I have noticed that Coffinmaker has done this type of thing a couple of times and I must say that I am very impressed with his kindness in helping others out.  Well done, sir.

CC Griff
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2015, 09:27:31 PM »
Har Har, obviously hasn't see the bill yet  :o ::) ;D

Thanks to both major and Griff.  It's nice to get an "attaboy" now and again  ;D

Coffinmaker

Offline tommy4toes

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Re: Carrier block not always dropping down when levering
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2015, 05:50:29 PM »
Attaboy!!!

t4t

 

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