Author Topic: Webley?  (Read 18360 times)

Offline pony express

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3629
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Webley?
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2016, 06:27:24 AM »
That's why they're called handguns not handsguns.  ::)
Yup! And I usually use just one-but I freely admit to being a bit intimidated at the thought of launching a 500gr bullet with one hand! Especially from an original antique Howda probably worth as much as half of my entire collection.

Offline Pitspitr

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4592
  • 308 214-0082 45551 Rd 816, Sargent NE 68874 USA
    • Grand Army of the Frontier
  • SASS #: 74523
  • NCOWS #: L187
  • GAF #: 147
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Webley?
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2016, 08:05:48 AM »
That's why they're called handguns not handsguns.  ::)
I shot it with only one hand and it still smacked my knuckles pretty hard. I would say that it was the only time I've ever even noticed recoil in a handgun.
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Benefactor Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

Offline Scattered Thumbs

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1289
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 61
Re: Webley?
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2016, 01:25:46 PM »
I'll admit that a pistol in the Snyder caliber is certainly a handful.  ;)

Advertising

  • Guest
Re: Webley?
« Reply #43 on: Today at 06:16:50 AM »

Offline pony express

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3629
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Webley?
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2016, 06:56:57 PM »
I'd say, for it's intended use, keeping a tiger from climbing up on the elephant you were riding, I'd probably not notice the bruised knuckles.

Offline Scattered Thumbs

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1289
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 61
Re: Webley?
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2016, 04:44:40 AM »
I'd say, for it's intended use, keeping a tiger from climbing up on the elephant you were riding, I'd probably not notice the bruised knuckles.

I'd say you are quite correct.

Offline Delmonico

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 23324
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Webley?
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2016, 06:10:18 AM »
To me it makes no sense, I'm tiger hunting in a big laundry basket on an elaphant, a tiger trys to board, so I put down my rifle, grap this big pistol and shoot it?  Tell me please, why that makes sense.

Kinda like the guy bear hunting with a 338 mag with a 500 S&W on his hip.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Jake C

  • Department of the Atlantic, GAF # 834
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 579
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Webley?
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2016, 07:09:57 AM »
I was under the impression that the howdah pistol was a weapon of last resort against a tiger, not preferable to a rifle. No one safe on the back of the elephant would switch to the pistol, but the fella who just got knocked out of the howdah by 560Ibs of flying, angry big cat would surely be grateful for it.
Win with ability, not with numbers.- Alexander Suvorov, Russian Field Marshal, 1729-1800

Offline Pitspitr

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4592
  • 308 214-0082 45551 Rd 816, Sargent NE 68874 USA
    • Grand Army of the Frontier
  • SASS #: 74523
  • NCOWS #: L187
  • GAF #: 147
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Webley?
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2016, 07:39:13 AM »
Correction:
It was a 450-577 Martini-Henry cartridge Howda but either way you really wouldn't want to drop both hammers at the same time!  :o
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Benefactor Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

Offline Scattered Thumbs

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1289
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 61
Re: Webley?
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2016, 11:27:10 AM »
To me it makes no sense, I'm tiger hunting in a big laundry basket on an elaphant, a tiger trys to board, so I put down my rifle, grap this big pistol and shoot it?  Tell me please, why that makes sense.

Kinda like the guy bear hunting with a 338 mag with a 500 S&W on his hip.

Consider this, the tiger will only jump on top of the elephant if you already have missed it with both barrels of your rifle.
 

Offline RattlesnakeJack

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1931
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Webley?
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2016, 01:40:52 PM »


To me it makes no sense ... Kinda like the guy bear hunting with a 338 mag with a 500 S&W on his hip.

In both cases, Glen, it makes eminently good sense!  In each scenario, the rifle is obviously the primary weapon of choice for the hunt ... but, once empty, that rifle is nothing more than a very expensive club, which any sensible person will gladly and quickly abandon in favour of the handgun to deal with an enraged/wounded carnivore of the deadliest sort rapidly closing in on him!


Correction: It was a 450-577 Martini-Henry cartridge Howda but either way you really wouldn't want to drop both hammers at the same time!  :o

Actually, Garry's howdah pistol is, indeed, chambered for .577 Snider ... this is a Guns & Ammo video featuring the very pistol he had with him at that Muster - http://www.gunsandammo.com/video/howdah-pistol/

One thing Garry says in this video is a bit "off" ... something along the lines of "... if the tiger is still coming when you have emptied your rifle, you'd load this thing up ..."  Rest assured (and as Garry is of course well aware, despite that slip of the tongue) one most definitely wouldn't wait until then to load it ... it (or even better, a pair of them ... would be very close at hand and all ready to go!

(Another minor point, if I may: the Martini-Henry cartridge is most commonly  referred to as ".577/.450" ...)
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Blair

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 2484
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Webley?
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2016, 02:14:06 PM »
I think, and this is just my thoughts, I would prefer one of the large caliber 5 shot DA revolvers made by either Webley or Adams as my back up hand held gun.
My best,
 Blair
A Time for Prayer.
"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things right,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted"
by Rudyard Kipling.
Blair Taylor
Life-C 21

Offline RattlesnakeJack

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1931
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Webley?
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2016, 03:24:25 PM »
Assuming you have in mind the .450/.455/.476 family of revolver cartridges (all of which are, in fact, .455) as someone who shoots such revolvers regularly, I would prefer the .577 Howdah pistol for a tiger ... the usuual revolver cartridges are really not all that powerful.

Mind you, if you meant one of the .577 revolvers, such a backup piece might indeed come in handy!



The .577 revolver cartridge was nowhere near as powerful as the .577 rifle cartridge for which the howdah pistols were usually chambered.  Still, it threw a pretty massive chunk of lead, as can be seen in this comparison with a .45ACP cartridge -

Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Blair

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 2484
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Webley?
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2016, 04:04:18 PM »
Jack,

My thinking was in the pre cartridge time frame. Like large bore Webley percussion revolvers.
I have a small bore, .36 cal. 1853 Webley revolver. I would not use this revolver as a back up for Tiger hunting, but would consider it's "bigger brother" in a .50 cal. big bore size.
My best,
 Blair
A Time for Prayer.
"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things right,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted"
by Rudyard Kipling.
Blair Taylor
Life-C 21

Offline Scattered Thumbs

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1289
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 61
Re: Webley?
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2016, 05:32:39 PM »
Jack,

My thinking was in the pre cartridge time frame. Like large bore Webley percussion revolvers.
I have a small bore, .36 cal. 1853 Webley revolver.
My best,
 Blair


Unsuitable for a charging tiger. Unless you're on the tiger's team.

Note. Not really experienced with tigers, but how different can they be from an angry lion? Lightning fast in the attack and nearly unstoppable.

Offline Delmonico

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 23324
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Webley?
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2016, 05:38:02 PM »
Good way to end up in the litter box.

Still think the rifle makes the most sense, but then, like today people have to have toys that are maybe not suitable to the task.   
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Scattered Thumbs

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1289
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 61
Re: Webley?
« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2016, 05:46:14 PM »
Good way to end up in the litter box.

Still think the rifle makes the most sense, but then, like today people have to have toys that are maybe not suitable to the task.   

Del, you're  not paying attention. The rifle was the main gun. But you won't have time to reload it if you miss. And it was quite easy to miss both shots. The speed of the charge is amazing. The Howdah pistol (with the tiger already over you) was your last chance to get to tell the story to your grandchildren.

Offline Delmonico

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 23324
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Webley?
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2016, 06:29:57 PM »
I still doubt you'd have a chance to grab it.    ;)
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline RattlesnakeJack

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1931
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Webley?
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2016, 07:50:26 PM »
In many circumstances you'd be correct, I'm sure, Glen (see below: three narrowly separated frames from a film or video of a tiger attack - although the most tempting target for the tiger would firstly be the mahout riding out on the elephant's neck, as shown there)  ... however, regardless, as the Facebook memes keep telling us (more or less): "Better to have a howdah pistol and not need it, than to need a howdah pistol and not have it!"



At any rate, with one or more such pistols mounted on the inside wall of the howdah (which is where they were carried) ... loaded and ready to go ... they would be a lot faster to bring into play than reloading the rifle!
Rattlesnake Jack Robson, Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, North West Canada, 1885
Major John M. Robson, Royal Scots of Canada, 1883-1901
Sgt. John Robson, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 1885
Bvt. Col, Commanding International Dept. and Div.  of Canada, Grand Army of the Frontier

Offline Delmonico

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 23324
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Webley?
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2016, 08:30:32 PM »
Besides they are cool old relics to see, (for me, not to shoot) would be interesting to know how many if any were ever used for what they were built for.   
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Pitspitr

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4592
  • 308 214-0082 45551 Rd 816, Sargent NE 68874 USA
    • Grand Army of the Frontier
  • SASS #: 74523
  • NCOWS #: L187
  • GAF #: 147
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Webley?
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2016, 01:15:45 PM »
[quote author=RattlesnakeJack
Actually, Garry's howdah pistol is, indeed, chambered for .577 Snider ... this is a Guns & Ammo video featuring the very pistol he had with him at that Muster - http://www.gunsandammo.com/video/howdah-pistol/(Another minor point, if I may: the Martini-Henry cartridge is most commonly  referred to as ".577/.450" ...)
[/quote]
 ??? Just goes to show how memory can be mistake. I was sure I remembered it as being necked down. I never get you Brit's cartridges right do I?  :-[
Being .577 Snider would explain why it had, ummm, stout recoil.
I remain, Your Ob'd Servant,
Jerry M. "Pitspitr" Davenport
(Bvt.)Brigadier General Commanding,
Grand Army of the Frontier
BC/IT, Expert, Sharpshooter, Marksman, CC, SoM
NRA CRSO, RVWA IIT2; SASS ROI, ROII;
NRA Benefactor Life; AZSA Life; NCOWS Life

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk

© 1995 - 2023 CAScity.com