Author Topic: 1917 revolvers in Westerns  (Read 10993 times)

Offline nagantino

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1917 revolvers in Westerns
« on: June 16, 2015, 04:28:18 AM »
I was watching a movie yesterday while my car is in the shop. It was called Gunmans Walk starting Van Heflin, James Darren and Tab Hunter. It's a handsome movie though not one of my favourites. Anyway Van Heflin is showing the 2 youngsters how to shoot by throwing bottles up. I'm certain they are using S&W 1917 revolvers. I suppose it makes sense, draw and pull the trigger fast, with no cocking the hammer. It's not possible to see real close but I'm certain they are not using SA Colts. Has anyone else noticed similar anomalies?

Offline Major 2

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2015, 04:50:12 AM »
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Offline Trailrider

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2015, 10:54:50 AM »
What time period was the movie? Could they have been using the M1917's as a substitute for M1894 DA .38LC or somewhere in between? Probably much easier to get shootable (or not) guns for the movie, than the earlier models.
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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #3 on: Today at 09:51:04 AM »

Offline St. George

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2015, 12:17:33 PM »
A lot of celluloid 'heroes' couldn't manage thumb-cocking, but could handle pulling a trigger - plus war-surplus M1917s were even cheaper and more plentiful than used SAAs, so Hollywood armorers put fake ejector housings on them and figured that no one would notice.

Just like the fake 'webs' attached to SAAs to make them look like Civil War 1858 Remingtons, and fake 'flintlock' sideplates on rolling blocks to replicate flintlock rifles.

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Offline Major 2

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 12:26:26 PM »
St. George is spot on

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Offline Jubal Starbuck

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2015, 04:55:38 PM »
   Seems like Marlon Brando used one in "One Eyed Jacks" also.

Offline nagantino

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2015, 11:27:06 AM »
In the movie my interest was piqued when I saw Van Heflin reloading on the left of the revolver, but keeping the gun covered. I think I a saw Lucky Ned Pepper with something similar in True Grit when he was calling to Rooster to back off. In One Eyed Jacks, Marlon Brando can be seen galloping off, after a shoot out near the town fountain, and his revolver go flying from his holster.

Offline Bruce W Sims

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 08:31:56 AM »
OK...maybe its just me but with all of the resources and money available to
movie-making outfits, is it really that much of a nose-bleed to at least use
period-correct pieces? From what little I know, there are actually resources
in the Hollywood area that "rent-out" all kinds of bits. I swear, sometimes I
half-expect to see Civil War scenes with bolt-action rifles! Can't be THAT tough
can it?

Best Wishes,

Bruce
Best Wishes,

Bruce

Offline Jake C

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 10:44:44 AM »
OK...maybe its just me but with all of the resources and money available to
movie-making outfits, is it really that much of a nose-bleed to at least use
period-correct pieces? From what little I know, there are actually resources
in the Hollywood area that "rent-out" all kinds of bits. I swear, sometimes I
half-expect to see Civil War scenes with bolt-action rifles! Can't be THAT tough
can it?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

It's not an issue of historical accuracy as much as it is an issue with actors. As St. George said, they'd use 1917's mocked up as SAA for actors who couldn't thumb-cock a SAA revolver fast enough. Basically a little ploy to make your old western hero look more impressive.
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Offline Johnson Barr

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 12:30:26 PM »
Here's one for you; try the final shoot-out between Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda in 'Fire Creek'. Jimmy's DA has a Single Action ejector rod housing on the barrel even though he swings the cylinder out from the frame to fumble a reload just as Inger Stevens drills Fonda from the up stairs boarding house window.
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Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 01:12:22 PM »
Towards the end of "Winchester '73", Jimmy Stewart has his shootout with Dan Duryea.  Duryea was disarmed, but manages to grab a gun from another guy's holster.  Good thing for him that it happened to be a double-action so he could fire all of those shots into the ground as he was dying.

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Offline The Pathfinder

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 01:38:18 PM »
Watch El Dorado, the scene in the church where Mitchum is shooting at the bad guys. He's carrying a SAA running into the church, but comes up firing a DA, and if you listen closely you can hear him drop the DA on the pew as he grabs the SAA to run out of the church with. ;D

Offline nagantino

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 03:13:52 PM »
But wouldn't you wonder why. John Wayne knew his way around a revolver. I suspect Robert Duvall does too. The point about about Dan Duryea in that great shoot out in Winchester 73 is a good one. If it's explained to an actor and it makes sense to the action, then I have less objection. If it's just carelessness that's different.

Offline Fox Creek Kid

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 09:58:04 PM »
...John Wayne knew his way around a revolver...



Offline Major 2

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2015, 12:42:50 AM »
THAT IS JUST WRONG !
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Judge Roy Bean

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2015, 02:51:07 AM »
Alan Ladd fans a double action in Shane . both Dean and Bob do in five card stud while shooting at the wind mill /
Texas & Miss Lilly.
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Offline Bruce W Sims

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2015, 08:52:31 AM »
For myself, I just wonder how much some of these actors really investigate the back-story
of a given individual they are going to portray. I know the character is usually ficticious,
but I am suspicious of just how much the actor knows about, say, the drover lifestyle or
what daily life was like in a frontier town.  FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce
Best Wishes,

Bruce

Offline Major 2

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2015, 12:59:29 PM »
Some like Robert Duvall , are quite knowledgeable, He is extremely well learned in ACW history.
Gregory Peck was well versed & studied A. Lincoln.
Hal Holbrook is another A. Lincoln & ACW  scholar.

the late Ben Johnson was an American west historian ,  "Dobe" (Harry Carry Jr. ) and  Noah Berry Jr. could school you too.
 
Buck Taylor is great to listen to,  as is Sam Elliot & Kurt Russell
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline St. George

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2015, 02:10:00 PM »
However - many of the actors in question didn't care...

They were 'actors' - interchangeable, unless they were the star - and were lucky to have jobs.

They also didn't have any input into scripts back in the '40's and '50's when the iconic Westerns were churned out - they just showed up and followed the script and collected their pay.

Why in the world would an actor even care?

They're actors - they don't sit and pontificate - they wonder if their agent was going to get them another job after 'this' one was in the can, and if someone new on the scene was going to usurp their position - if they could get any shallower - they'd be dust.

Many didn't even like guns - but they made them money, so they holstered them, brandished them and thanks to the Special Effects men - shot bad guys galore either hand, and with an accuracy that would stun even Louis L'Amour.

Try to absorb the salient fact that they're movies - designed to entertain the masses with mindless excitement in an air-conditioned environment - not documentaries designed to enlighten history students.

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Offline Delmonico

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Re: 1917 revolvers in Westerns
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2015, 04:18:41 PM »
If one has a very broad base in knowledge of historical objects you will find it's not limited to guns, it's cars, tack, music and one could keep naming objects till you were blue in the face.   

It really boils down to they are made for entertainment and 95% or more of the people who watch them don't have enough knoweldge to know the differance.     

Heck, watch enough reruns of Dukes of Hazzard and you might notice if you know hat and where to look, not all the General Lee's were Chargers.    ;)
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