Best Primers???

[AWFUL CLOSE]

I've wondered if the competition shooters  that cut their springs so light that they only fire Federal primers are really doing themselves a favor or not. Sure they are able to cock their hammer with less resistance and theoretically that equates to a quicker cocking time. however the question becomes: due they loose that advantage when it takes longer for the hammer to hit the firing pin because of the lighter spring? It would really be interesting if someone ran a blind test to see.

[Litl Red]

I've wondered if the competition shooters  that cut their springs so light that they only fire Federal primers are really doing themselves a favor or not. Sure they are able to cock their hammer with less resistance and theoretically that equates to a quicker cocking time. however the question becomes: due they loose that advantage when it takes longer for the hammer to hit the firing pin because of the lighter spring? It would really be interesting if someone ran a blind test to see.

Doing themselves a favor?  or not?    

When someone thinks something helps, it does.  Increased confidence almost always helps.  

As for the difference in speed of cocking versus the speed of ignition, there aren't many who can come close to cocking as fast as hammers fall, even hammers pushed by softer springs, at least those who're still asking for guidance in their new sport.   There is also time and effort spent maintaining aim and less is required when cocking disturbs that less.    There is where most of the time saved comes from.  However...

To see how much time is saved would take some pretty expensive and sophisticated equipment.   That fact shows exactly how little time you're talking about.    When you're an average shooter, that little amount of time isn't going to do much for your standings is it?   Same deal with short stroke jobs on rifles.   So why do so many pay for these two "important" jobs?   They believed the advice they got from the ones who gave the advice.    

Why do so many humans make a living selling snake oil?   'Cause so many humans buy it.

[rickk]

Federals will work in a gun with a lightened trigger pull when no other one will.

One the flip side, there is a company making reloading presses with an auto primer feed that prohibits the use of Federal primers in their equipment because the design is such that primer feed chute explosions are a possibility.

What primer does your load data recommend?

Rick

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[Montana Slim]

"............When someone thinks something helps, it does.  Increased confidence almost always helps.........."

I must disagree. Firearms are machines and science.
Positive thinking will not alter the outcome of a machine.

Slim

[Litl Red]

No problem...

They certainly are iron and wood.   They do happen to be fired by people.   Who often use them in matches.  Even matches that include offhand, although confidence helps people even when they're shooting off rests. 

The degree of help varies for sure, but still helps.

[Coal Creek Griff]

As a longtime (now former) law enforcement firearms instructor, I have long seen improvement in students' shooting ability when they had confidence in their guns.  Conversely, if they had trouble with it, they tended to be very tentative in their shooting and therefore slow and less accurate, even after any malfunctions were resolved. I don't have scientific research to back that up, but that was my experience.

CC Griff

[Delmonico]

Any gun that won't fire any and all primers each and every time is broke.   

I have a Ruger SSM that has one of the lightest triggers you will ever see and it will fire each and every brand and type of primer including CCI Small Rifle.   A set of springs don't make a "trigger job"  no more than a set of headers and a big carb on a stock V8 don't make a race engine.   

[Jake C]

I've read psychology reports where people who dressed well for a test did better on it because they felt more confidence. I'd assume there would be something similar in regards to competition shooting.

[Good Troy]

I've been honored with a best dressed award for the only two annual matches I've attended.  I was probably in the lower 10% of my shooting category last year, and this year I was second, but there was only two of us in the category...the winner beat me out an average of over 15 seconds per stage! 

I'd hate to think what my stage scores would be if I didn't dress well!!

As for primers...I think that as long as you follow the reloading tables, and your gun functions properly it won't matter what you use for action shooting. 

I've twice chased a problem with primers....both times, it was the primer-er, not the primer that was the problem.  Once, it was contaminated primers (moist primer pockets from not drying out thoroughly after cleaning), and the next time it was from being improperly/insufficiently seated.  Before I figured all this out, I ended up with new mainsprings, and a differnt primer mfg...I chased the wrong problem initially.

[Jake C]

I've been honored with a best dressed award for the only two annual matches I've attended.  I was probably in the lower 10% of my shooting category last year, and this year I was second, but there was only two of us in the category...the winner beat me out an average of over 15 seconds per stage! 

I'd hate to think what my stage scores would be if I didn't dress well!!

I didn't mean it as a direct comparison. More referring to confidence in your firearms could give a kind of 'x-factor' quality to your shooting. Of course, this is speculation on my part, the test I read was dealing with a fairly different situation, obviously.

[Good Troy]

Trum4m1208....
No worries...it was more a dig at my shooting abilities, or rather inabilities, than directed at your comment...
It's all good with me!

[wildman1]

Trigger spring and hammer spring are two different things. One controls how hard it is to pull the trigger the other controls the force of the hammer striking the firing pin or in the case of Colts and clones the force of the firing pin striking the primer. wM1

[Jake C]

Trum4m1208....
No worries...it was more a dig at my shooting abilities, or rather inabilities, than directed at your comment...
It's all good with me!

My bad, misunderstood you. My apologies, good sir.

[Litl Red]

For example.....    I often do primer comparisons as an excuse to go shooting.   The beauty of our hobby is it has SO MANY things that really need to be tested.   Primers really aren't one of the things that differ much from brand to brand, but what the heck....  I never pass up a good sounding reason to go shoo.... uh, to TEST stuff.

I was really going today to work out the sight settings for a new MVA staff for my 40-70SS, but always work out a secondary test to include.  All the cartridges were prepped the same and filled with 19.4gr AA5744 under the same .410" sized bullets etc etc.   Only half had Rem 9-1/2 and the other half had WLPs.  

5 shot groups went over the chronograph while sighting and adjusting and honing the sight settings.  Each primer fired 4 groups with velocities recorded with 3 being measured for accuracy as well.  

As expected, the group average velocities differed and also expected was the difference wasn't close to significant.  The Remington groups just so happened to be slightly slower than the Winchesters.  I've never seen a real pattern on the winner in these tests because I try so many different powders and such different cartridges.   For example, I also had a 221 Fireball rifle doing load testing.   There is a world of difference between those two cartridges, for sure.

The Rem 5 shot groups averaged from 1139 to 1147 average velocity.  The average ES extreme spread for the 4 groups was around 32fps.  SD for all 4 groups was in the teens.    Very good numbers.  

The WLP 5 shot groups averaged from 1156 to 1162.  Their average extreme spreads for the 4 groups was around 16fps.   SDs were all under 10.   Very, very good numbers.  

To my way of thinking, there was a clear winner.  To a statistician, there wouldn't be because the test was so small.   Bottom line is that I've been shooting the Rems exclusively because they beat CCIs the first comparison test shot with that new rifle.  But they're running out.  WLPs are all over around here.  

The 5 shot groups were alternated to make the comparison fairer as far as the accuracy part was concerned.  The chronograph couldn't care less.   Oh yeah... the accuracy part.....            

hehehe.....   It's seldom these tests show really significant statistical differences in accuracy.   This was no exception.  This rifle is one sweetheart.   Plans are to shoot it in a match this Saturday.   It'll certainly be up to snuff.  And matches are just about the best testing available.          

[Major 2]

May have been said by ones more eloquent than myself...
the best primers are the brand I can currently get  ...period

the worst is no brand available .... 

[Blair]

Gee, who would have thought it?
Then there are the "after market" week er spring kits.
This is all related to the speedster shooting class.
For crying out load people. If you don't have the strength to cock your firearm,  start working out!!!
Sorry.
I just couldn't help myself.
My best,
 Blair

[Delmonico]

The lighter springs are for more than ease of cocking, they move the gun a little less when they hit, same with the smoothed up action, it decreases lock time, both can make a difference on small targets out at a distance, but everything has to be in balance and work right for it to be an advantage. 

And no, the SSM I use is not a CAS gun but a hunting gun and is used on small game to a 100 yards or slightly more.

[will52100]

My personal favorites are CCI's, especially for gas guns like the Garand or M14, those get CCI mil spec hard primers for the free floating firing pin.  I also like CCI's for my lever gun's tube magazine.  Yes, I know there's a slim to non chance of a properly seated primer going off in a tube mag, but still.

Also I'm not a fan of Federal primers, maybe if I was shooting a match grade bolt gun.  I tried a 100 of them years ago when first getting into reloading and they ran fine through a Lee hand primer, but they did get a bit dented up and maybe that's why I don't care for them?

I also reload on Lee equipment, a Loadmaster, Pro-1000, and a turret press.

I've recently tried Tula primers and so far like them.  I don't know if I'd trust them yet with match loads, but for action shooting they work good, and run through my presses just fine.  Also there a hard primer.

All my guns are slicked up by me, but I don't lighten the hammer spring much if any, and they will pop any primer.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

I have used WOLF or TULA large and small primers in both rifle and revolver. After over 10.000 of them i remember only one failure to fire.
BUT I will use what ever i can get when ever I can get them.
Bunk