Reloading .45LC with BP

[Litl Red]

Discussing each other wastes everyones time.

Want to tell someone what you think of them?   Send them a pm.

Want to discuss an issue?   Stick to the issue.   Got nothing to say about the issue?   Move on and don't waste everyones time.

[Delmonico]

Why, this has become an amusing thread, I'd say the one who asks advice and don't want to take it has wasted peoples times.  But it continues on.  I've actually become amused as to how people ask for advice are given good advice and then ain't happy with it. 

All the people who have reloaded for 20-30 years told you how to do it, you get unhappy and say you don't want to read, then get upset because people ain't happy with you.  Sometimes though if you explain something enough times it will sink in.

[half-hitch]

As far as I'm concerned the mods can remove this post.  It's gone nowhere anyway.  I got my answers in another thread. 

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[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Sir Charles.  I know there are some talented people and a lot of good information on this forum and that's why I'm here but the format here is a discussion forum so I want to discuss.  How else can I get to know everyone and learn all of the tricks and little secrets if we don't discuss.    

PS...  thanks for the links.

Not to beat a dead horse, but ... there really aren't any amazing secrets, pretty much everything is covered in the several books mentioned.
 
We tell everyone to read the books for a simple reason: everything one needs to know has already been laid out there. Why should we re-invent the wheel and waste our time typing it all back into the Web again ? If one can read these forums, one can read the books. After that one can start loading, see how the equipment works, and try out different loads. One should be prepared for a learning curve, which ought to be expected in any new endevour.

Then, if one is having a problem such as " I can't seem to get a consistant crimp on the Lee 358-158-RF lead bullet" , well that is an appropriate topic for discussion on the forums...

no offense intended, but we get excited newbies with fair regularity and they all get these same answers
            READ THE BOOK
- trust me it's not personal.

Here is a thread from (OMG) 4 years ago that lays out "everything" ... since that time we all got tired of typing it again and again

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,37343.0.html

Don't forget, when one comes asking for free advice, and is given advice freely, one should not complain about what he got ( for free) .  ;-)

And here is a thread discussing that very topic:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,34805.0.html

 
All the Best and I
hope this helps
yhs
prof marvel

[rdstrain49]

If I said what I'm thinking I'd likely be banned.  So,  have a nice day.

[half-hitch]

Not complaining at all Professor Marvel and nothing is taken personal.  Please allow to express my view and no offense intended.  

First off, this online format is called a discussion forum for a reason.  It's where people with a common interest gather to discuss a subject, in this case, CAS.  If I wanted to read everything that I could, I'd go to a library but these discussion forums have created an atmosphere for sharing information freely and if one doesn't like that, then why are they here?

I don't force anyone who doesn't want to participate to answer my questions and if someone has the attitude that they're "tired of typing the same thing time and time again", they should skip over posts from new people, who are just excited to "talk shop" about their new hobby, and just move on.

The book that came with my reloading kit is a 900 page encyclopedia of knowledge with 2 pages dedicated to .45 Colt.  My options are a 250 gr. JHP.  That's it.  How many books do I need to buy and read to find out where to start?  I had a guy on a Facbook reloading group just yesterday tell me exactly what he loads for his Uberti 1873 Cattleman in .45 Colt.  I didn't ask him to provide any information.  He volunteered it freely and never had a negative thing to say.

There are 2 groups of enthusiasts on here, one has been helpful and kind and has volunteered lots of information and one that chooses to chastise methods of seeking information.  Which category an individual falls into is up to each individual.  I do appreciate ALL responses but I'd rather be busy discussing the question at hand rather than whether or not the question should be answered.

Have a great day.  I hope it's dry where you are.  

[Cliff Fendley]

The book that came with my reloading kit is a 900 page encyclopedia of knowledge with 2 pages dedicated to .45 Colt.  My options are a 250 gr. JHP.  That's it.  How many books do I need to buy and read to find out where to start?  I had a guy on a Facbook reloading group just yesterday tell me exactly what he loads for his Uberti 1873 Cattleman in .45 Colt.  I didn't ask him to provide any information.  He volunteered it freely and never had a negative thing to say. 

You will just  need to read the front part of the speer manual for the general loading and safety procedures. Otherwise that part is good if it is anything like the older speer manuals. The rest as you say is just loading data and if you don't find what you're looking for you'll need to look elsewhere.

The great thing about today is you can go online to the different powder manufactures and get loading data for what they sell.

For black powder not so much though but there is a wealth of info on boards like this, you'll just have to sort through it.

If you want to try black powder, provided you can get a small quantity the 45 colt or 44wcf would be good choices and are very simple to load with black powder plus they were originally designed for black powder.

Actually I think loading black powder is easier than smokeless.

[half-hitch]

You will just  need to read the front part of the speer manual for the general loading and safety procedures. Otherwise that part is good if it is anything like the older speer manuals. The rest as you say is just loading data and if you don't find what you're looking for you'll need to look elsewhere.

The great thing about today is you can go online to the different powder manufactures and get loading data for what they sell.

For black powder not so much though but there is a wealth of info on boards like this, you'll just have to sort through it.

If you want to try black powder, provided you can get a small quantity the 45 colt or 44wcf would be good choices and are very simple to load with black powder plus they were originally designed for black powder.

Actually I think loading black powder is easier than smokeless.

Thanks, Cliff.  I'll probably get my feet wet on the smokeless powder before I try any of the black powder loads. 

[Cliff Fendley]

Thanks, Cliff.  I'll probably get my feet wet on the smokeless powder before I try any of the black powder loads. 

For smokeless in a 45 colt I would recommend to try and get some Trailboss powder. It's a good powder for low velocity target loads and fills the case so it's harder to do a double charge for someone new to reloading. Go online to IMR website and print off the loading data.

Trailboss is what my wife and I use in almost all of our smokeless CAS loads.

[Professor Marvel]

The book that came with my reloading kit is a 900 page encyclopedia of knowledge with 2 pages dedicated to .45 Colt.  My options are a 250 gr. JHP.  That's it.  How many books do I need to buy and read to find out where to start?

Greetings My Good Half-Hitch -

now that is a problem, and a valid question, and it gives me an opportunity to babble endlessly illustrate (as an example), the process that I myself go through to try to select a load.

I have found that the books from the Jacketed Bullet Companies are oft' rather deficient regarding loads for lead bullets. I myself ran into a similar issue looking for mild lead loads for .45 Colt in a Remington conversion ( which is a whole nother kettle of fish) .

The Lee and Lyman books are highly recommended as they do cover lead bullet loads more than the Jacketed Bullet Manufacturers.  So I went out and bought the latest Lee 2nd Edition "modern reloading" which NOW recommends
for a 250 gr soft lead bullet, to start at 8.4 gr of unique but never exceed 9.5 gr of unique. (note, this is different from my 30 year old book)  .

Further if we go to the Alliant Powder Web site, their recipe has only a single load for this bullet and unique:

45 Colt    250 gr Speer LSWC    Winchester    CCI 300    Unique    9.5    941    

According to both references, Lee and Alliant, 9.5 gr is either a "max load", or a "safe load"  or "do not exceed load"

now comes the fun part.
- Why Unique? it's what I have. It "generally " works for "everything" ( within limits)
- Unique is said to be "not position sensitive" (and I have not found it to be position sensitive)
- But Unique is "not bulky" so even 9 grains of unique will only fill ~  1/3 of the case.
- The .45 Colt was designed to be a BP cartridge, so it has an enormous case.

But, I want a "mild load" ...  *and* a large case only 1/3 full of powder can possibly lead to accidental  double charges and unfortunate KB ( kaboom).  If I want a safe mild smokeless load I really need to try to find Trailboss (as Cliff Recommended) , which is currently hard to get.

So my last alternative for a load safe for a Remington 1858 conversion is actually to use the recommended black powder load
of " a full case of BP that will allow the bullet to seat with mild compression".

hope this helps
yhs
prof marvel

[Good Troy]

Here's a link to Hodgon's reloading data.  There is information on lead bullets, and data for Trail Boss as well as other powders.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

[half-hitch]

Thanks to all of you who've replied.  This will get me headed in the right direction.   

[half-hitch]

Cliff and Professor.....   I found both Trail Boss and Unique smokeless powders at Bass Pro.  Reading the reviews, it looks like the Unique is more preferred and the main drawback to the Trail Boss is that it doesn't flow well.  Is that info accurate or is it possible that it's misinformation from someone just learning like me?

Looking at the load data on the Alliant Powder website, this is what I find.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?page=/reloaders/powderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=3&cartridge=36

45 Colt   250 gr Speer LSWC   Winchester   1.6   5.5   CCI 300   Unique   9.5   941   -

Is the 9.5 grains a max load and a safe load for Uberti's?  

[Good Troy]

I'll chime in ...

I've used both Unique and Trail Boss for 45 LC 250 gr RNFP.  Each powder gave an acceptable loads for my CAS shooting needs.  I had feeding/flowing issues to the contrary of what you reported.  I had inconsistent charges from my RCBS Uniflow using Unique.  I had better success with a Lil' Dandy RCBS measure.  Trail Boss feed (flowed) fine for me. 

As for the charge of 9.5 grains of Unique behind a 250 gr LSWC...that is a powerful load!  I've shot 8.5 grains behind a 250 gr RNFP for ONE match.  The next day, I dropped the charge considerably.

I think that you would do fine with either powder, but I suggest that you start closer to the bottom of the loading tables for CAS.

[half-hitch]

I'll chime in ...

As for the charge of 9.5 grains of Unique behind a 250 gr LSWC...that is a powerful load!  I've shot 8.5 grains behind a 250 gr RNFP for ONE match.  The next day, I dropped the charge considerably.

I think that you would do fine with either powder, but I suggest that you start closer to the bottom of the loading tables for CAS.

I think I'll start with the Trail Boss and proceed from there once I have a handle on the whole procedure.  I'm not shooting CAS yet so recoil isn't an issue for me.  Can't be any worse than my Ruger .44 mag but what I don't want to do is blow up my much weaker Cold replicas.  Thanks Troy.

[half-hitch]

If I said what I'm thinking I'd likely be banned.  So,  have a nice day.

I just now saw your post rd.  Not sure what you meant or who your reply was meant for but you're always welcome to chime in. 

[Good Troy]

I'm not shooting CAS yet so recoil isn't an issue for me.  Can't be any worse than my Ruger .44 mag

Take some screw drivers with you to the range.  Sometimes, the trigger, hammer and/or bolt screws in the frame will loosen on Colt SAA and copies.  I had this occur more frequently with heavier loads, and especially when my revolvers (Cimarron/Uberti Cattlemen in 45 LC) were newer. 

[Cliff Fendley]

Trail Boss flows just fine. In fact it is probably one of the more consistent for throwing powder charges.

Only problem I ever had with it is in a Dillion with the small charge bar opened nearly all the way up to get the desired charge. The powder is so bulky you need to use the large charge bar in a Dillion and it never spills a grain and is always spot on. I weigh the powder charge every 50 rounds or so but it is never off, I never have to adjust the charge bars for Trail Boss.

[half-hitch]

Thanks guys.  Good info.  A screwdriver is something I never would have thought of. 

[Mean Bob Mean]

Hey pal, I would say reload BP if you like.  I started out reloading and after like one foray into smokeless started loading all my .45 LC with smoky powder.  It's the bomb, it's not corrosive.  Just clean up with Ballistol/water mix then mop it with pure Ballistol.  Easy peezy baleabeezy.  it's a hoot to pop em off.

Yours in stinky black shooting,

Mean Bob