1847 Colt Walker

[half-hitch]

Was watching Lonesome Dove (again) the other night and since I've started collecting some cowboy guns, paid closer attention to the guns in the movie and was wowed by the size of Gus' gun, the Colt Walker.

I've never shot a black powder gun before so am curious as to how expensive they are to shoot and how difficult/time consuming they are to load.  I'd like to hear your experiences and thoughts if you own this gun.

Thanks.

PS...   if this post needs to be moved to the black powder forum, let me know and I can repost it there.

[Navy Six]

If you go to "Darksiders Den" or "Storm" and look at previous posts over the years, you will find plenty of information from those who have shot Walkers--Colts, Ubertis, & ASMs. You can then decide if this is the right gun to start your blackpowder experience with.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Gus's Walker conversion ... on exhibit at San Marcos University in Texas.
Long Johns Wolf

[Advertising]

[Major 2]

You'd be most welcome over on the OT BB , if Hoof or the good General wanted to transfer this post....

I'll offer my insight & 2 cents , having shot C&B & conversions forever  

The Walker is the biggest bad-est of the lot, but with it comes some things that might detour you....

1. it's weight just over 5 pounds loaded, is less desirable as a holster carry gun , pretty healthy tug on your gun belt all day
2. The hefty loading rammer, has the early design spring keeper, rather that later( Dragoon) design catch... it has a penchant to drop down on each recurring shot  ...annoying !

Course these are work a rounds.... but , for a new comer ... be just enough to sourer the experience.

I'd recommend, a 51 Navy in 36 cal. ( skip the never was 44  ) or my personal favorite the 1860 Army ...both saw extensive use in The ACW and the WEST ...  and by all means skip these in brass frame

Both are great holster carry pieces, Newt carried a 51 Navy , and Pea eye had a Richards conversion ( Lonesome Dove connection )

Get yourself a powder flask , ( skip the plastic starter one )  a Slim Jim holster and I believe , you'll enjoy the experience, then when your hooked and ready ..get your Walker....
Oh, and expect to want a Henry to go with them  


 

[half-hitch]

I really appreciate the advice and taking the time to answer some questions.  Being brand new to this, what is a conversion?  Is it a black powder converted to a cartridge gun?  I like the big boom but not sure how much I'd shoot it once I had it if it's a chore to load and I did read something where a lot of the Rangers would use a piece of rawhide and make a loop that could be slid back and forth to hold the loading rammer in place.

The weight doesn't bother me since I'm a pretty good sized guy and carrying it wouldn't be likely.  I like my SAA's too much. 

I also saw where Cabela's has a kit for $359.  I think I'd enjoy assembling the kit but not sure about finishes.  Are there some decent finishes that can be put on the gun at home?  I'll take a look at the 1851 and 1860.

[Major 2]

having said the above ..and alluded to brass frames ...

Its just that the COLT 51 Navy or 1860 ARMY  were never made in BRASS FRAME ( for that matter nor was the Remington )  
nor was the 51 Navy chambered in 44 Caliber..

However ....
The Confederate , Griswold & Gunnison , Schneider & Glassick were brass framed copies of the 51 Navy design & the Spiller & Burr
was brass frame copy of the Whitney revolver...

as you can see... I like the old  Brass frames "IF" they are original to the period

[Major 2]

A conversion is exactly as you state

Richards or Richards & Mason's so named for the superintendent in charge at Colt when his version was offered

[half-hitch]

When you say that I alluded to the brass frame, is that what the kits have?  I didn't see that part.  I like both the 1851 and 1860 conversions.  I was just reading about them on the Cimarron website.

[Major 2]

you didn't mention them ...
There are Brass frame kit's
 ... I was just suggesting " if " the first time buyer often gets one of these,  as a price point ...
the experience is often less than ideal.

The Walker Kit is not one of them.... for difference in cost though, unless the Kit experience that is something you'd enjoy...
I'd say get the finished gun....   

[half-hitch]

Thanks, Major 2.  I just finished watching a video on how to load a BP revolver.  Quite and ordeal.  How long does it take from one round to the next?  I'm guessing there's some clean up in between loading another 6 rounds.  Do you use the Crisco?  I think I'd probably just go for the finished gun. 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Half-hitch;  After awhile you will find time saving techniques. Experience is a great teacher. 

Two tricks I use to save time and money are; 1. Punch wads out of pulp egg cartons and soak in melted BP compatible lube. these are inserted over the powder before seating the ball.  2. I also pre-measure my powder into .45 Colt once fired cases, leaving the fired primer in place. Press the ball on to the case mouth for a convenient pre-loader. (For .36 revolvers, use .357 mag cases.) You can store these pre-loads in a plastic revolver ammo boxes, and wrap 5 or 6 loads in foil to carry in a cap pouch. Pinch the ball off the case mouth and dump the charge in the chamber, place a wad over the powder then the ball and ram. The major objection to using a brass cartridge case to store your powder is that this is definitely NOT historical.

As well, you will acquire a capper along the way to save time for that chore.

I live on the WET coast so I gave up on paper cartridges, but they are a suitable and historical way to speed up loading in summer or dry climates.

Yes it is all a bit of a chore, which is why the change over to cartridge firearms was so rapid. That is besides the point as there is a joy in recreating the old ways.

[half-hitch]

Great tips, Sir Charles.  Much appreciated.  Being in the Midwest, I don't have a problem with wet during the summer months but the springs can be wet.  It's been weeks since I've seen the sun for a full day. 

[St. George]

As an aside, the Walker was never designed to be a belt revolver - it was a horse pistol.

That meant it was to be carried by the horse - in pommel holsters.

'Lonesome Dove' took more than a few liberties when they strapped that cannon onto skinny Bobby Duvall, and got every viewer to think that 'that was the way it was' during the era.

My suggestion would be to find a local C&WAS shoot or Blackpowder shoot and attend as a spectator - there, you'll find a goodly number of BP revolvers and accessories to not only try, but to purchase, as well.

That, and buy more reference books, a small start would be a copy of the Dixie Gun Works catalog.

It's full of blackpowder arcana and shooting tips, as well as clothing, leather, accessories and guns and books to buy.

Scouts Out!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Half-hitch; I'll go even farther than St. George. Check out NCOWS. There is an NCOWS posse in Missouri, The Double - M Cowboys.

http://www.doublemcowboys.com

The range is shared with a SASS club, The Southern Missouri Rangers. Likely, membership is also shared? Location is NE of Springfield near Marshfield.

https://smrsass.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/outlaw-range-gazette-nov-13.pdf

P.S: I cheated on Half-Hitches location!   I searched his profile page.

[Major 2]

Half-hitch, St. George & Sir Charles both have good points

I did not pickup on the fact you're in or near Missouri 

Definitely contact the Double M Cowboys , and seek out Fingers McGee, he is near & dear to everything C&B Colts.

 

[Tornado]

If you really want a Walker but don't want to mess with C&B, their are conversion cylinders for it:
http://www.kirstkonverter.com/colt-walker-dragoons.html
http://www.howelloldwestconversions.com/shop/productinfo.cfm?catID=261&productid=808&cfid=944673&cftoken=6deb67ff29216125-D6B5FF82-C29F-29A9-650FEE74FAB9CF2E

Saying all that a '1858' Remington NMA or a 1860 Colt replica would be a better first C&B revolver.  I say first because if you like it, you will eventually end up with several. 

[half-hitch]

Thanks to all of you for the info.  Yes, I'm just south of Kansas City about 45 minutes.  I'll check out the club, Double M Cowboys, down by Springfield.  It's a couple hours away for me but you never know. 

I've checked out the Walker conversions and if I had one, I'd want to experience it the way it was designed to be experienced.  I have plenty of other cartridge guns to shoot.  I may not shoot it a lot but I'd like to play around with it. 

I'm not surprised that Hollywood would portray the Walker as a carry gun in Lonesome Dove.  It took about 10 minutes to clear the holster when he'd draw it. 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

This is a case of REEL history, compounding the errors that McMurtry ALWAYS sticks in his "historical" novels. I think he does it to force us into doing a REAL job of research.

In the Novels, McMurtry comments that the early rangers and Gus in particular as always seeking the latest/best in firearms. To carry a Walker, which was not referred to in the novels, nor compatible to his service history disclosed therin, is very questionable

[Major 2]

As I recall , Gus carried a Dragoon in the novel ....

and Duvall is shown with the Walker mostly, but he also had an 1860 Army

Still,  Propmaster Eric Williams  on LD did a better job than the Armorer on "Hell On Wheels "
Henry's , 66's , SAA, Jake Spoon had a 1875 Remy,  even Ol Rosco had a Patterson..


But not the first Brass frame 1860 Grizwold   was seen  

[Gabriel Law]

That Walker Gus carried made a dandy tool for slapping a 'surly barkeep'.

Years ago, I owned a Uberti Walker Colt.  I loaded 50 - 55 gr. 3Fg Fg GOEX and a .459" ball, and it was a dandy shooter.  The chambers had been machined smaller than the bore, so I reamed them out a titch and also lapped a mold to cast the larger ball.  But my combination was an accurate load.  I also used felt wads over the powder, prelubed with my black powder bullet lube, just as Sir Charles suggests.  Should never have let her go!