Is the Cattleman "Gunfighter" NCOWS Legal?

[texaswoodworker]

I saw this thing and though it looked pretty neat. It's your standard Taylor and Company (Uberti) Cattleman, only it has an 1860 Colt Army grip. It would fit my large hands much better than a typical SAA grip would. I checked and it wasn't on the unapproved list. Is this thing NCOWS legal?

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/cartridge-revolvers/1873-single-action-revolver-series/gunfighter.html

[Johnson Barr]

Working in the gray area is a challenge; being neither approved or disapproved. I play in traffic all the time. What you need to be prepared for is a 'Judge's Challenge'. The 'list' is for officially sanctioned matches; National or Regional. You may find, as I did, a one time exemption with the caveat that YOU must find and present historic documentation to the Authenticity Committee for approval for use in future National or Regional matches. It has been often said; Never Volunteer. This would be one of those occasions.     

[French Jack]

Pietta came out with a model in that grip configuration a few years ago.  It was not approved.

[Advertising]

[bushwhacker]

Texas woodworker,
I am in contact with the AC Committee at this time.  It is my understanding that Colt used the Navy style grip on the peacemaker.  That being said if you could find documentation of one being changed over to the Army grip then it could be reviewed.  I have not been able to find any examples so far.  Bushwhacker.  NCOWS Judge

[texaswoodworker]

I know Colt used the 1860 grip on some 1871-72 revolvers, but I have not seen any original 1873s with that grip. I'll have to look.

IIRC, it's not a hard conversion to do. What are the criteria for a gun being accepted? Would a single period example be enough, or does it have to have been a factory modification?

[Yuma Kid]

TexasWood Worker,

By-Law 7-3-b.
A successful petition must have at least the following: (1) a minimum of two (2) primary published references proving the historical existence of the original of the petitioned replica firearm or item. Such references must adequately describe the original item being reproduced, prove its availability , use, or manufacture for sale during the time period 1865-1899; and/or (2) A minimum of one (1) dated period photograph, woodcut, engraving, catalog, and/or advertisement of the original of the petitioned replica firearm or item, or a photograph from a collector’s reference (such as Flayderman’s) proving that the original of the replica firearm or item did exist and could have been used during the period 1865-1899; and/or (3) an actual artifact representative of the petitioned replica firearm or item, properly authenticated and documented as to time period.

So 3 things; a photo or example and 2 publish references describing the firearm modification.

Yuma

[Books OToole]

We had this discussion a couple of years ago.  It was a pistol called (and I know this is wrong but its close) "The alchemist."  A SAA Colt clone with an 1860 Army Grip.  It was not approved.

It seems this is the same thing with a different name.

Books

[Cliff Fendley]

The "Alchimista" EMF Great Western made by Pietta.

[Johnson Barr]

Fellas you may want to visit the current 'unapproved' revolver list posted at the NCOWS official web site. Over size (1860 Army) grips on 1873 SAA pistols is not addressed. And of course this modification does not appear on the 'approved' list. She's a grey area shooter.

[Mogorilla]

I have seen a period 1873 Peacemaker with 1860 colt grips.  One of the guys who shoots at the Jesse James farm has one.  Some of the nicest old ivory grips I have seen on it.   I will see if I can get more details this weekend.

[Books OToole]

When this came up the last time, I did extensive research trying to find any original Single Action Armies so configured.  I could not.  The R.Q. Sutherland collecton had one of everything Colt made (if they only made one he had it) and it did not a SAA with a 1860 grip.

Books

[Major 2]

Does the Sutherland collection have a 41 Cal. 1851 Navy ? 

I saw the one at the NRA Museum in Springfield SS# 1

Sorry for the High jack just wondering how many were made .... 

[Texas Lawdog]

Prolly not too many!

[OklaTom]

Getting back to the original intent of this thread:

Last time this came up with the EMF Alchemista, the Authenticity Committee simply could not find an original documented, so it was basically dropped.  No action taken, no Approved List or Unapproved List was modified.  So, Johnson, in one respect it is a grey area.  On the other hand, being in the grey area, it is incumbent upon the person wanting it to be approved to provide the documentation from the 19th Century and petition the AC, not the other way around.  I am sure the AC would be happy to consider it again, provided documented evidence that they existed.  Having seen just one would not sway me as a member of the AC.  Could be one person's adaptation.  It's an undocumented issue like the bird's head Colt SAA.  There were 5 special ordered from Colt by one man and presented as gifts to 5 of his closest friends.  If you can tell the name of the guy that special ordered them, and where they went, perhaps that would be revisited.

[Jake C]

Sorry to revive the thread here, was doing some late night reading and this caught my eye. The recent issue of 'Guns of the Old West' had a slip gun based on a '73 Colt with what the author called "'72 Colt grips." I'm no expert, but they looked like 1860 Army grips. Plenty of pictures, and the gun itself is in the Frasier Arms Museum, Louisville KY. So there's a heavily modified example of an original.

Hope that was helpful!