Author Topic: Weird jamming problems  (Read 8114 times)

Offline jjort

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Weird jamming problems
« on: March 15, 2015, 09:09:00 PM »
Well the good weather is finally here so I decided to try loading up my 65 Burnside.
I am using .518 350gr Lee bullets with a hard cast mixture and cut down 50-70 cases from Buffalo Arms.
I have tried overall lengths from 1.7 to 1.5 and I cannot get the rifle to feed at all, at least with the magazine tube in.
If I remove the magazine tube and tilt the rifle down, I can get it to feed most of the time.
If I put one bullet in the magazine and insert the tube, then work the action the bullet doesnt seem to come far enough into the receiver for the breech block to clear the cartridge. I have to tilt it down to let it go further in. With 2 bullets it just jams up. If I work the action really fast, it will cut the second bullet nose and then the first bullet will go too high under the bullet guide and jam on the top of the chamber (the bullet guide spring might be too weak???) The only thing I can think of is the bullet shape might be wrong but that wouldnt stop the first bullet from entering the receiver.  I dont think there is much I can do except try other bullets. I want to try the Lyman 515-139 before I buy the mold but cant seem to find any.

Offline Ibgreen

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2015, 09:24:23 PM »
My best feeding bullet is the Lee .515 450 mold.  I milled the base band to shorten it to around 380 +\~.  Only downside is the smaller flat nose.  I counter this with primer bumpers but this only has been done with my load in my rifle.

Offline Herbert

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2015, 10:14:01 PM »
I think your gess at the cartridge guide spring being week or broken is the most likely cause of your troubles.With the Burncide carbine I have found a OAL of 1.6 inch or very close to this gives the smoothest feeding,bullet shape also counts.For me the Lyman 515-139 mould is not a good choice for original Spencer,you will do much better with the cut down Lee 50-70 cal moulds or one from a maker desighned   for original 56-50 Spencers

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #3 on: Today at 04:21:28 AM »

Offline jjort

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2015, 10:24:11 PM »
My best feeding bullet is the Lee .515 450 mold.  I milled the base band to shorten it to around 380 +\~.  Only downside is the smaller flat nose.  I counter this with primer bumpers but this only has been done with my load in my rifle.

Do you mill the mould or the bullet?

I could probably cut the bullets after casting but as for modding the mould itself, I have no idea on how I would do that

Offline Herbert

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 01:01:27 AM »
You shorten the mould on a mill and replace the spruce cutter,not shore who does the work but someone here will know,BACO sells a couple of moulds for the original 56-50 depending on your groove size that I have used with good results,I use the NEI 525-395 bullet in my Spencers and get very good accuracy

Offline jjort

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 11:30:45 AM »
I have made a little progress today.

The magazine follower was not going far enough into the receiver so that when there is only one round it would not clear the breech block. Probably has to do with the modified follower that has a flat on the end.   I made the slot a little longer and now if feeds perfectly (with one round in the magazine)... I have a feeling that the mould I am using has the wrong shape bullets and is causing my problems.  I am going to slug my bore and see if I can come up with a better bullet solution.

Offline jjort

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 03:30:06 PM »
I just slugged my bore and the best I can come up with is around .518 to .519

I am going to try some bullets from Buffalo arms   .520 375gr  and if they work, will order the mould



Offline Herbert

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 03:40:29 PM »
Forgot about the follower sometimes needing modification,I have used S&S followers and have had to modify a couple.I now make my own by going off the length of the original rim-fire magazine fully extended.You will like the BACO .520-375 bullet

Offline El Supremo

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 04:36:26 PM »
Thanks, Herbert:
If you would, please give us the magazine tube's overall length figure with reference points. 
Your measurement will help us in the future.  Thanks and warmest regards.
Respectfully,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
Pay attention to that soft voice in your head.

Offline Herbert

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2015, 05:07:40 PM »
Measurements for my Burncide  magazine tube are :OA with S&S CF follower  extended is 14 1/2 inches.The slot for the follower screw ends 1/4 inch from end of tube and starts 1 3/4 inch from the back of the magazine cap .Follower extends 1/2 inch from magazine tube when fully extended,this is on my carbine and may vary slightly on other original Spencers but not by much so if any modifications are needed go slowly and keep checking the ease of feeding.If the bullet you are using is the one that is ment for the Smith carbine it should work OK once you have the OAL of close to 1.6 inches

Offline El Supremo

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2015, 06:03:33 PM »
Thanks.
So good to have your help. 
El Supremo
Pay attention to that soft voice in your head.

Offline Strongbow

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 03:04:35 PM »
I just slugged my bore and the best I can come up with is around .518 to .519

I am going to try some bullets from Buffalo arms   .520 375gr  and if they work, will order the mould




For what it's worth, that's the bullet mold I use in my 56-50 original and it works well for me. 

Offline jjort

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2015, 10:22:39 PM »
For what it's worth, that's the bullet mold I use in my 56-50 original and it works well for me. 

I should have the bullets next week...good to know that they are working on original carbines.  I am very hopeful



Offline Walksfire

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2015, 12:26:00 PM »
I am using the buffalo Arms Mold for my original 1860 spencer. They shoot just fine. I have found that I have to load the bullets in a particular set of motions. The motions for loading the plastic blanks are slightly different. To successfully shoot from start goes as follows. Load all 7 bullets in the stock. I cock the gun. The first one always feeds in perfect with a strong lever action with the gun horizontal. After shooting number one, I cock the gun again and I begin the eject with the gun in horizontal and once the brass is cleared the chamber and on the fork, I rotate the barrel upward and the brass clears the gun. At this point you can see number two ready to come into the block and I rotate the barrel toward the ground as I begin close the lever, and the bullet goes into the barrel. Fire number two and repeat the process. I guess I am helping with gravity and maybe wonder if my 1860 original has a weak spring somewhere.

Offline jjort

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2015, 12:47:35 PM »
I think I solved the problem
I changed the bullet guide spring and it is way stronger than the one I pulled out.
The cartridges no longer go too far into the receiver and they dont jam into the top of the chamber either.
I got the buffalo arms 520 - 350 bullets but I havent tried them yet.
They have a more pointed profile than the lee bullets I have been using.  Once I shoot the ammo I have, I will reload with the Buffalo arms bullets and hopefully they will not have any issues.

Quick update

Just tried the lee bullets that I hard cast and they feed perfectly...I ran 15 shots through it....series of 7 and a series of 8 and it functions excellent... I am very pleased with it...My cartridges ranged from 1.7 to 1.5 and it fed them all....Now I can settle down and find an accurate load.   Will try the buffalo arms bullets now that I have some empty brass

Offline El Supremo

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2015, 07:23:52 AM »
Hello:
Spent two days,with Larry Romano in his shop just before Easter tweaking guns.

My mint Romano Spencers were balky and wouldn't cycle my dummy rounds consistently, even with OAL's rangjng between 1.500" and 1.600" using RMC cases that were 1.170" and his usual 315 gr. Single grease groove bullet cast in wheel weights.  We test cycled my three Romano Spencers.  Interestingly, he  has dummy rounds using his 315 gr, single grease groove bullet, that VARIED in OAL between 1.400" and 1.600".  He mixed these OAL'S and they fed well!  He shared that he deliberately uses mixed OAL's to be sure that most anything will feed.  Ok, he still suggests 1.550". 

It took him less than a minute to diagnose MY problem --- my crimps were NOT sufficient and created a case crimp diameter that was a bit tight in his TIGHT chambers.  He tightened my crimp and my EMPTY dummies fed well. 

One other tip:  DO NOT USE LOADED ROUNDS FOR TEST CYCLING!   When test cycling to diagnose balky cycling, one can be a bit more forceful and cause a fed, UNFIRED round to eject and jam HARD against the NOSE of the cartridge guide.  This amounts to significant contact with the PRIMER!  NOT GOOD! 

Respectfully,
Kevin/El Supremo
Pay attention to that soft voice in your head.

Offline KEN S

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Re: Weird jamming problems
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2015, 08:05:18 AM »
my 65 Burnside carbine feeds without problems using the 350 Lyman and a 1 20 mix lead tin.
if your bullet is deforming on the nose, that's your problem.  try a little harder mix. or
  just lightly grease the ramp each shooting session.  I do this and they just slips up in the breach.
clean everything well, and maybe polish the ramp a little. They used a pointed bullet and it didn't do this.
  we use a flat nose because of the center fire, and it catches sometimes.  turning the rifle over proves the problem is the
bullet catching, and not the gun.
   luck....Ken

 

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