Author Topic: 56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...  (Read 4039 times)

Offline Dakota Widowmaker

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56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...
« on: November 02, 2005, 11:31:50 PM »
And my Spencer sure tears up the lead bullet...

When I cycled a few blanks through the action, man, did it ever carve the heck out of the bullets.

If I use a shorter length, does it go a bit easier on the bullet?

I am right around 1.61", I think...gotta get my better micrometer out and check tomorrow.

I am use the modified Lee mould.

(I just got done casting up another 60 bullets...105 bullets need to be sized now)

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: 56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2005, 05:35:39 PM »
I noticed/had the same problem.  But since no one else mentioned it, I did not want to be the first.  Thought the problem was with me or my rifle.

I get a little at 1.63 but not bad, but anything 1.64 to 1.69, it gouges out a good groove.  Plus the action jams tight when bullet are just too long and fills the magazine too much.

I backed off a little but not to 1.61.  Still that's not bad and still better looking than the 1.54" bullets.


Black River Smith
Black River Smith

Offline Hell-Er High Water

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Re: 56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2005, 10:07:51 PM »
Dakota & Black River,

Remember, the original rifle was designed around a pointed bullet in a rimfire cartridge.  With at flat pointed, center fire cartridge feeding will not as smooth as with a pointed bullet cartridge.  Any flat pointed bullet will not feed as smoothly as a pointed bullet.  It is just the 'Nature Of The Beast'.  If you work the action 'Smartly' the flat pointed bullets seem to feed smoother than if you work the action slowly.  I have found this to be true wheather it is the modified Lee bullet, the Rapine bullet or a custom bullet that I had made from Mountain Moulds.  For accuracy testing, single loading might be the best approach as no bullet deformation will be introduced into the results.  Let us know what you come up with.

Hell-Er High Water

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Re: 56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...
« Reply #3 on: Today at 10:31:04 AM »

Offline Dakota Widowmaker

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Re: 56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2005, 08:57:26 AM »
If all goes well, I should have a good report after tomorrow morning...(outdoor range is open Sat.)

Yeah, I figured that I would need to single load my rounds for it to not muck up the bullets.
(Same with my model 94 Winchester and 38-55...but to a much lesser degree than what is happening with my Spencer)

Still though, solid 9.5 on the cool factor scale...

Offline Tuolumne Lawman

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Re: 56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2005, 09:45:26 AM »
Last night I made an interesting discovery while fidddling with my 56-50 Taylors. 

I noticed that my loaded Buffalo Arms bullet rounds arre much shorter than the originals, but feed smoothly, and so does the original.  I discovered that reliability is not really by the OAL length, but rather a function of where the cartridge retainer on the top engages the ogive of the bullet.  MY short round is like having the last 1/8" lopped off ann original, but still sits in the same position on the carrier as the original.  I noticed the carrier hits the ogive at the same point on both original and short round.  Length is a function, but not OAL.  It is the length from base of rim to where ogive meets cartridge retainer.  I tried to load a buffalo arms bullet as long as the original, but due to the rounded ogive, it did not let the bullet come out of the magazine as far, and would not feed.
TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators

Offline Hell-Er High Water

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Re: 56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2005, 10:38:13 AM »
As a footnote to my post of yesterday, I have found that by going to a harder bullet helps with the feeding.  While 20:1 or 30:1 are standard black powder bullet alloys, straight wheel weights or Lyman No. 2 alloy will give harder bullets that feed smoother.  Granted, if you are using this as a hunting round the expansion will not as much as with a softer alloy, but with a bullet this big in diameter how much expansion do you really need?

Try a harder alloy and play with the overall cartridge length, as Tuolumne Lawman mentioned, till you get a round that feeds smoothly.  Once you decide on an overall cartridge length, you can determine what powder charge of black powder will give you the powder compression you want.  I don't think that the idea here is to cram as much powder into the case as will fit but rather to get a reliable feeding round with an appropriate compressed powder charge.  After all, we are shooting these guns for pleasure, mostly at targets, and not in a combat situation.

HHW

Offline Tuolumne Lawman

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Re: 56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2005, 10:51:36 AM »
I agree with Hell or high water.  I ersonally settled on the BAC .512/350 mold for four reasons:

One, when I first got the 56-50, I got some bullets from BUffalo Arms and Ten X.  I noticed that the BAC bullets functioned flawlessly when crimped in the crimping groove (thumb and forefinger with a light touch on the lever).  This mold is the mold used for those bullets.

Two, bullet has a large metplate which would be good for hunting, since I cast really hard bullets (1/20 bullets mixed with wheel weights and some linoytype metal thrown in <g>)  These bullets do not deform when feeding, and like you say, how much does a flat nosed .512 bullet need to expand!

Three, It casts at .512-.513 and does not need sizing.

Four, it was the only available at the time! Considering one and two above, that's OK.
TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators

Offline Dakota Widowmaker

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Re: 56-50 OAL...mine is sure picky...
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2005, 03:31:41 PM »
Well, after I ran the action at a normal range pace and fired a few dozen rounds, it works like a charm now.

Clean up time and a good lubrication with CLP should do just fine.

 

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