Author Topic: Use of pistols by the Punitive Expedition  (Read 24440 times)

Offline LoneWadhi

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Re: Use of pistols by the Punitive Expedition
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2013, 10:36:22 AM »
The whole 'reins in the teeth' trick could be pulled off by a man who was 'one with the horse' and instinctively rode.

The Cavalryman of the era wasn't that man - nor was he as well-trained as one might've thought - having come largely from the cities and encountering horses for the first time.

The 'Cavalry Drill Regulations' spell out the various saber maneuvers - and they did get pretty proficient with those, since they competed constantly in Garrison - and they did fire the handgun while mounted for the same reason - however very few were seasoned campaigners as they were during the Civil War.

Those were some damned forgiving horses...

As to the movies - if they ever filmed 'real life' of that time - folks wouldn't've stayed for the second reel - no matter how 'air-conditioned' the theater may've been in the summers.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!





My Father was a horse cavalryman in the 20s and 30s, at one time serving, as an enlisted man, under Colonel Patton.  When I was a boy he taught me how to ride.  He stressed controlling the horse with my legs saying that the cavalry was trained to do that since they were to go into combat with the saber in one hand and their pistol in the other. The horses were often trained better than the men even responding to bugle calls even when not mounted.  He said that one of his horses was the meanest horse in the troop, but it was his job to ride it according to SOP, if he ever was to be promoted.  He was a city boy, but did get the extra stripe, eventually reaching the rank of colonel. 

He said, "Adapt, adjust, overcome and win."

As to some men being issued two pistols . . . I have no direct knowledge, but my experience in the Army is that some units, because of their mission and the planning of their officers, sometimes carried non-authorized equipment in a combat situation. I know I did.  He told me that the ARs are a guideline not Scripture . . . that a good officer is suppose to be innovative in how best to use his weapon, his men, to achieve his mission according to the operation orders.  It is entirely possible that some units, especially scouting cavalry, might have extra non-authorized equipment.  Combat is not a place for cookie-cutter parade ground thought.
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Offline Grizzly Adams

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Re: Use of pistols by the Punitive Expedition
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2013, 04:30:09 PM »
I too had an uncle that used to tell us kids some whoopers! ;)  I like the part about the charge with the reins in the teeth.  Cool! ;D
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Offline Col.Will B.Havoc

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Re: Use of pistols by the Punitive Expedition
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2013, 02:39:47 PM »
The United States Army has never issued two sidearms to anyone since the late 1840's. Some officers did buy a second pistol or revolver carried in pommel holsters. Officers or Enlisted may have purchased a second sidearm, privately but the odds against it being a 1911 are pretty high as there weren't that many around at that time.

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Re: Use of pistols by the Punitive Expedition
« Reply #23 on: Today at 09:30:51 AM »

Offline nagantino

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Re: Use of pistols by the Punitive Expedition
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2015, 04:24:35 AM »
Did they carry two 1911 pistols? They might have. Is there categoric proof. Probably not, but anyone reading this thread must be asking themselves about the stories that their aunts, uncles, father, mother, grandfather and grandfathers have told them about any aspect of their lives. I live in Ireland, believe me , we have plenty of stories. Do I believe them all? It never entered my head to question them. They are stories that weave a picture of the past that become part of you and your family.  I love history and the broad strokes must be true, but what happened on a particular day will always be open to a bit of conjecture.
Photographic proof is great but can a two edged sword. While watching Flags of Our Fathers it showed American units with Doberman dogs working over the beachhead. I looked at these scenes and thought "No Way. That just doesn't look right". But at the credit sequence at the end Eastwood used photographs taken at the time. Not fuzzy snaps but pin sharp, medium format beauties. Hmmmm I thought, " See our wrong".

Offline mehavey

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Re: Use of pistols by the Punitive Expedition
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2015, 11:35:20 AM »
Speaking of horses...

Patton very deliberately shot the bad guys' horses as part of his encounter with Julio Cardenas' bunch in his famous gunfight.

"Patton explained that Texas Ranger Dave Allison—whom he had
 befriended a few months earlier in El Paso—advised him to do just
 that if he got into a fight with cavalry."

(I often have to resist throwing shoes at the TV set when I see all the Westerns where the horses aren't the first targets)


 

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