Author Topic: 44-40 ROT Revisited (Read 13976 times)

Fox Creek Kid · « **on:** January 07, 2015, 10:38:31 PM »

Has anyone shot an Uberti 44-40 rifle/carbine with their new 1 in 20" rate of twist at 50 yds. & beyond to see if it will stabilize a 200 gr. bullet worth a damn? I have a bad feeling about this drastic change.

M113A3 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:22:39 PM »

Interesting question to which I have no answer but you can follow this link and find the formula to do a calculation as a point of reference.

Cheers

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling

Cliff Fendley · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2015, 09:49:11 PM »

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on January 07, 2015, 10:38:31 PM

Has anyone shot an Uberti 44-40 rifle/carbine with their new 1 in 20" rate of twist at 50 yds. & beyond to see if it will stabilize a 200 gr. bullet worth a damn? I have a bad feeling about this drastic change.

Beyond 50 yes. I have a 66 that shoots awesome out to 75 or so with both mav44 bullets and the accurate 215C over a full case charge of black powder.

I plan to do some longer range testing very soon. I too am very curious and would have already been done but I have had a lot of health issues the last year that has held me back.

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Fox Creek Kid · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2015, 02:18:19 PM »

Thanks Cliff.

Fox Creek Kid · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2015, 04:55:10 AM »

FWIW, I found some info regarding Winchester using THREE different ROT for their '92 Model!!

To about serial 390,000 in 1906 the twist in all rifle barrels was 1:30" with the grooves 1/4 wider than the lands.

From 390,000 to 675,000 in 1912 the rifling twist in all rifle barrels was 1:24" with the grooves 3/4 wider than the lands.

From 675,000 to end of production, the twist rate in all rifle barrels was 1:36" with the grooves 1/4 wider than the lands.

Hmmm.

Cliff Fendley · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2015, 08:27:56 AM »

I plan to do more serious testing of different loads and bullets but so far with two different bullets I've tried my old Navy Arms Henry with the 1-36 twist will shoot tighter groups than two newer Uberti rifles I've tried with the 1-20.

This is 44wcf using the Mav Dutchman bullet and the 215C Accurate bullet. Both over 36 grains of Old Eynsford and Kik powders. Tried fffg and ffg.

mehavey · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2015, 10:10:59 AM »

[ Lyman #2 Tang Sight ]

Fox Creek Kid · « **Reply #7 on:** December 12, 2015, 11:23:37 PM »

mehavey, that is very impressive!!

mehavey · « **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2015, 05:52:37 PM »

It's all the rifle [which was Commanchero'd & an absolute marvel] and the ammunition
[which is just the run-of-the-mill standard powder/load] with a great bullet [kept soft].

I'm just along for the ride....

Fox Creek Kid · « **Reply #9 on:** December 13, 2015, 06:25:32 PM »

I sure wish you'd replicate the test, but with blackpowder.

mehavey · « **Reply #10 on:** December 13, 2015, 09:07:01 PM »

I'll have to order up a powder compression die, but give me a week-10 days....

(I'll also dip-lube w/ DGL since the BP sizer is set up for the 50 Smith right now)

Cliff Fendley · « **Reply #11 on:** December 13, 2015, 10:03:55 PM »

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on December 13, 2015, 06:25:32 PM

I sure wish you'd replicate the test, but with blackpowder.

Ditto

mehavey · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2015, 04:50:00 PM »

Fast load/experimenting to get five rounds assembled/loaded after work/before dark.

Tried to clean barrel from ALOX/smokeless residue + two foulers, then record ...
just to see if there was any 'there' there to come back to.

Cholla Hill Tirador · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2015, 09:27:44 PM »

Where did you find the twist rates?? I checked Cimarron, Uberti and Taylor and they had no twist rates listed.

I once owned the rifle pictured below. (Wish I still had it!!) I have no idea what the twist rate was. I ordered one of these moulds:

from NOE and the bullets actually drop at 220 grs. Anyhow, I loaded them over an arbitrary charge of 8.5 grs. of Unique and shot. I actually bought the rifle to resell, but was really enamored by the leaf sights and was curious how close they'd be on. As you can see by the 200 target, it shot nearly where it was supposed to. As I said, I don't know the twist, but the rifle was pretty darned accurate even with the long-for-caliber bullets.

Excuse the metal targets, but I find it much more economical and clean to just keep a couple of cans of spray paint near the targets instead of trying to use paper targets.

CHT

Abilene · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2015, 10:34:18 PM »

Quote from: Cholla Hill Tirador on December 16, 2015, 09:27:44 PM

Where did you find the twist rates?? I checked Cimarron, Uberti and Taylor and they had no twist rates listed....

It is at the bottom of Cimarron's home page, under product support.

http://cimarron-firearms.com/bore-groove-twist

mehavey · « **Reply #15 on:** December 16, 2015, 10:38:15 PM »

Quote

Where did you find the twist rates??

Actually measured 1:21 on the Taylor's

Cholla Hill Tirador · « **Reply #16 on:** December 16, 2015, 10:40:02 PM »

Quote from: Abilene on December 16, 2015, 10:34:18 PM

It is at the bottom of Cimarron's home page, under product support.

http://cimarron-firearms.com/bore-groove-twist

Thanks for that.

So what is the fear with the 20" twist? That it's too fast or too slow? For what it's worth, I have one of the Uberti 1873 .44 Magnums and use SWC bullets weighing nearly 260 grs. It has a 20" twist and stabilizes these bullets just fine grouping them into 2" or so at 100 yds.
I would be more concerned with a twist rate that was too slow than too fast.

CHT

Sarge · « **Reply #17 on:** June 30, 2016, 03:55:46 PM »

When did they change to the twist rate?

Sarge

mtmarfield · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2017, 01:41:30 AM »

Greetings!

For what it's worth, I have an Ideal Handbook that lists the Rate of Twist for various rifles: The Marlin
.44-40 twist is 36", and Winchester ".44 W.C.F. and .44 Flat RF" are 36". Remington .44-40 WCF twist is
20".

M.T.Marfield

PJ Hardtack · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2017, 10:23:43 AM »

Theoretically, heavier bullets require a faster ROT.

One of my CAS pals has a nice Marlin rifle (pre-safety button) in 44-40. He's a winner with it in most stages. However, accuracy drops off at 100m.

I think this is due to the slow 1x36" ROT.

News:

Author Topic: 44-40 ROT Revisited (Read 13976 times)

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