Winchester 1887's

[Mustang Gregg]

A local feller (with no children) is pondering selling off a few of the older firearms that he doesn't shoot anymore.

He has two Winchester M-87's in 12 gauge.
One is still original and still has a lot of finish.
The other's barrel was butchered down to about 22".  And has no blued steel left on it.
If I can get the second one reasonably, I would use it for a SASS arm.

I don't know what their serial years of manufacture or if they are smokeless-rated or not yet.

What years are stronger or more desirable, if any?

Pondering,
Mustang Gregg,
.44 Gunfighter

[cpt dan blodgett]

Not an expert on 1887 shotguns, but just about everything I have read indicates 2-1/2 shells and Blackpowder for original guns.  You can always look and see if the gun is stamped Nitro Proofed.  Another dead give away would be Damascus barrels if they were used on the 87s.  Google sources indicate only the 1901 was "Nitro Proofed"  Some sources indicate the receiver stretching to the point the firing pin will not set up shells in 1887s that were fired with smokeless. 

Chambers and forcing cones need to be lengthened to shoot 2-3/4 shells  Ejection of these longer shells may be problematic.  2-1/2 inch BP shotgun shells are available, expect one could cut down 23/4 inch hulls

[Trailrider]

Original M1887's were made with both Damascus and fluid steel barrels. I would NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES shoot one with a Damascus barrel, due to the possibility of intergrannular corrosion along the seam boundaries of the welded strips of iron. With fluid steel barrels, it is possible to shoot BP or LIGHT smokeless loads, IF THE GUN HAS BEEN THOROUGHLY CHECKED OUT BY A GUNSMITH FAMILIAR WITH THE Model '87.  As to shell length, there is no question that the chambers of the original '87's were intended for 2-9/16" shells. If the fluid steel barrel has enough "meat" on it, the chambers should be lengthened to 2-3/4" and a LONG FORCING CONE cut. Modern star-crimped shotshells with plastic shot columns would be constricted in the original short chambers, causing pressures to rise DANGEROUSLY! The long forcing cone, combined with the lengthened chamber will spread the pressure-time curve. Nonetheless, it is VITAL to use Low-Noise, Low-Recoil or similar shells.

Frankly, although I have fired original '87's, and think they are "neat", given the limitation of two shells loaded at a time, on, say, a six-round course of fire, requiring loading of two shells at a time, they are certainly not the choice for SASS competition. IMHO, the repro '87's with the "load-two" modifcation is a better choice, if one desires to use an '87 for SASS matches. I guess it depends on how "reasonably" you can acquire the arm, and the cost of inspection and modification. In addition, the original guns are probably less durable due to the vintage steel of which they are made.
Hope this is of some help.
Happy New Year, Pard!

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[Gabriel Law]

I have an original '87 with a 32" twelve gauge barrel.  I use it for CAS with 2 1/2" hand made rounds, cutting down AA Winchester hulls and roll crimping, and only with Holy Black.  But I do this for fun and do not ever expect to be proclaimed the 'Grand Poobah" at any match. Sure the hammerless double is faster;  even the '97, but the lever gun has enormous cool factor.

[cpt dan blodgett]

They may not be the fastest guns out there but mastery of the 87 is required if you ever want to be Governor of California

[Pony Racer]

The 87's threads are same as model 12.  I know folks have discussed replacing the Damascus and or fluid steel original barrels with more modern model 12 barrels - what I heard was this was being done not to shoot nitro shells but to preserve the older original barrels.

I have shot an original 10 gauge and a repro 12 gauge - lots of fun and cool factor!

Not as cool though as a converted martini-Henry 12 gauge:)!

PR