Why I like NCOWS

[Chantilly]

You are getting your wish.  We ordered Tina a pair of pistols for Christmas.

You know Major...that comes in threes for women....Diamonds, dresses AND guns!

[Major Matt Lewis]

She already has the diamonds and dresses.

[Marshal'ette Halloway]

I like the laid back atmosphere.
The shooters were laid back.. the cooks were laid back. the non shooters were really laid back (that'd be me) and the people as a group and indivually are outstanding. Warm family feeling the whole weekend.

 But the best part I like is when Chantilly gave me the job of "checking fly's."..
 Nope I didn't say checking FOR fly's..I said "fly checking".

I was in fact supposed to be helping her do the costume judging. Well, I will tell you this.. this woman has it all under control. She is on top of every little detail and is smiling and laughing all the while she is going around with her garmet check list. And she still finds time to compete and shoot!
 She really didn't need me..and it was a good thing.  I didn't know squat from sic-um...so I wasn't very much help.
 But I did earn my place as "Official Fly Checker".

[US Scout]

But the best part I like is when Chantilly gave me the job of "checking fly's."..
 Nope I didn't say checking FOR fly's..I said "fly checking".
... But I did earn my place as "Official Fly Checker".

Ah, so THAT is what you were doing!   

[US Scout]

There is more to NCOWS than just shooting and that is one reason why I prefer NCOWS to SASS or other outfits.  Regardless of where the emphasis is made in the by-laws, the stress on "authenticity" and history is a definite distinction, and the main reason I find NCOWS more interesting.

I was a living historian and reeactor for about 20 years prior to getting involved in CAS.  Consequently, I'm heavily focused on the "authenticity" aspect. Comparing both SASS and NCOWS, I was more impressed with NCOWS' stress on authentic clothing, firearms, etc.  However, being back East there weren't any NCOWS posses to join and shoot with, so I joined SASS.  Not long afterward, I came across an issue of the Shootist and liked what I saw, so sent my membership in to NCOWS.

My only NCOWS shoots have been the two GAF Musters, but I have to say they are two of the very best shoots I've attended.  While I wore a uniform (it was a GAF event after all), I was very impressed with the outfits worn by the "civilian" participants.  I also like the 10 sec penalty for missing.  If it were a real gunfight and you missed too many times, the penalty would be a lot greater, so hitting the modern day shooter with a 10 sec penalty seems fair enough. 

As Chantilly and Maj Matt Lewis have pointed out, the "attire" competition (I associate "costumes" with Halloween so dislike the word) was very competitive.  Almost all had the basics nailed, and most had progressed well beyond that.  I need to make a much more detailed check list for next year's competition, which I expect will be even tougher than this year.

Chantilly is also being too modest - the dress she wore on Sunday was very impressive and could have easily won an award had she been in competition (we judges took ourselves out of the competition).

[Lars]

As one studies the history of the period, the cowboy, lawman or gufighter made up at most 5% of the working population, if that.

At an NCOWS shoot, you see far more towns people, trades people or other occupations picked as a basis for a persona, and I feel safe in predicting that as our membership grows, the proportion of other trades to cowboys, etc. represented will probably approach the historical ratio.
That is what makes NCOWS for me.
RCJ

My reading of USA Old West history, much of it NOT written by Americans or in English, the cowboys figure in it very little, if at all. See my quick list (in another thread) of occupations common in mid-late 1800s. However, it can be claimed that I am baised cause I almost never watched/watch TV and I only ever watched one John Wayne movie (fortunately there was a very impressive redhead Irish lady actor, O'Hara something or other, so the time was not totally wasted).

I feel very "out of place" at big SASS matches because of the extreme "Hollywood" flavor. So far, the NCOWS shoot, especially this GAF Muster, leave me feeling very much "at home".

Re "costume contest" criteria, I agree with Chantilly that it is easy to acheive the basics. How much beyond that one manages to go is where it gets more interesting, both for the individual and for the onlookers.

Chantilly's comments about women's period correct clothes in NCOWS and shooting while wearing them very much repeat what I hear from Stina. I will only add here that Stina and I have found many photos of women on hunting, skiing, hiking, and horseback trips in the late 1800s early 1900s and they were nearly all wearing some sort of skirt and riding sidesaddle. At this point we do not know what, if any, changes to clothing were made to facillitate this. We do think it safe to conclude that some changes were made and that none of these women were wearing "dress up" clothes.

Chantilly's "salute to the military" dress on Sunday WAS impressive!!

Lars

[O.T. Buchannan]

I like to study history, to try to find out how things REALLY were 'back in the day'.  I want to know what kind of timepiece someone of the social/financial status of my persona would have carried, and then I want to carry one just like it...an original, if possible (which I do).  I want to find out what kind of clothing they used, and I want to duplicate it.  I want to study the boots they wore, and then step into boots JUST LIKE THEIRS, and walk the range and try to put my hands on history as much as we are able to do in this modern time and day.

I want to shoot the exact same type of firearms they shot, with the same type of propellant, and I want to know the capabilities and limitations of those firearms with the original type propellants and loads.  Mostly, I want to attend events with people who are of a like mind....I want to share with them what I have learned, and I want to LEARN FROM THEM as well.

To me, this is what NCOWS is all about....

[Will Ketchum]

I like to study history, to try to find out how things REALLY were 'back in the day'.  I want to know what kind of timepiece someone of the social/financial status of my persona would have carried, and then I want to carry one just like it...an original, if possible (which I do).  I want to find out what kind of clothing they used, and I want to duplicate it.  I want to study the boots they wore, and then step into boots JUST LIKE THEIRS, and walk the range and try to put my hands on history as much as we are able to do in this modern time and day.

I want to shoot the exact same type of firearms they shot, with the same type of propellant, and I want to know the capabilities and limitations of those firearms with the original type propellants and loads.  Mostly, I want to attend events with people who are of a like mind....I want to share with them what I have learned, and I want to LEARN FROM THEM as well.

To me, this is what NCOWS is all about....

 

OT, you nailed it right on the head.  I didn't really get it until I read one of your columns and the light went on.

That is why I don't shoot my Ruger Vaqueros in NCOWS matches and I only shoot black powder (as much as I hate the stuff) I have so many problem with my feet that I do make a concession with my foot wear just like I do when I take my modern medicines.  I can't go back to the 19th Century but I can experience some of what they did with the limitations that I won't jeopardize my health.

This is what is great about NCOWS the degree of authenticity is a personal choice.  After meeting the minimum requirements it is up to the individual just how far they go.

Will Ketchum

[Chantilly]

Chantilly's comments about women's period correct clothes in NCOWS and shooting while wearing them very much repeat what I hear from Stina. I will only add here that Stina and I have found many photos of women on hunting, skiing, hiking, and horseback trips in the late 1800s early 1900s and they were nearly all wearing some sort of skirt and riding sidesaddle. At this point we do not know what, if any, changes to clothing were made to facillitate this. We do think it safe to conclude that some changes were made and that none of these women were wearing "dress up" clothes.

Lars

Lars -

Women's clothing changed dramatically during the late 1800's.  By the 1890's, gone were the big bustles of the 1880's.  The 1890's saw a little less yardage to the skirts (although still a great deal of yardage compared to today!), no bustles, and split skirts for outdoor activities were acceptable.  Lou Graham's wonderful hunting outfit worn at the banquet was propor attire during the 1890's lending a great deal more mobility to women engaged in outdoor activities.  Women's sleeves ballooned during the 1890's which are a challenge for shooting - women have to be a little more careful with the rifle and shotgun when shooting with those huge sleeves!  Corsets were still the norm, and if you get a good fitting corset, they are comfortable when not tightly laced.  (The medical problems caused by tightly laced corsets is interesting reading if Stina is interested.)  Regardless, corsets allow far less mobility (bendability) then modern woman are used to adding to the challenge of shooting in a corset today.  Shooting in a corset can and is done by some women; you learn to adjust just like shooting in the skirts, petticoats and bustles. 

[Stina]

Chantilly--

I'd be very much interested in a fuller description of Lou Graham's hunting outfit!

And yes, I've read a thing or two about the detrimental effects of 'tight-lacing', and certainly don't intend to let myself in for any of the medical issues involved, tho' I think I'd have had to start wearing corsets a good many years ago to get the full effect.

Luckily, I know several people who can help me make and fit a corset properly, so I hope I'll still be able to move in it when I get it!

Stina

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

<Sticks her hand up>

Howdy! I shoot in a corset!

Yep, you have to be careful to have it comfortably, not tightly, laced. If it is laced correctly, the corset not only doesn't hurt, it adds back support. I've found that I am less tired at the end of a shooting day when I wear a corset than when I do not. It's all about the fit. Having a GOOD corset maker is a big help. The corset has to be cut low enough on the sides to give you a full range of arm movement, then laced tight enough so it doesn't "creep" up on you.

One thing I'd like to request: Some folks think that women in NCOWS are prohibited from wearing pants. I've seen a few NCOWS posse pics that show women in pants. Back in our time frame, women at work wore what was prudent, especially in the winter months. That included pants. Would folks please come out and say that it's ok for women to wear pants?

Thanks,

AnnieLee

[Will Ketchum]

Annie Lee, NCOWS doesn't prohibit woman from shooting in pants.  What they do prohibit is the tight, form fitting pants like the ones worn by Sharron Stone in "The Quick & The Dead".

Woman sometimes wore pants around the ranch or the farm when doing chores but wouldn't be caught dead in them in public.  On the other hand women who were impersonating men such as Calamity Jane or Charly Parkhurst (who was caught dead in pants). dressed in the typical baggy pants worn by men.

I suggest that woman interested in the topic get a copy of "The Woman" of Time Life's "Old West" series.  There are several pictures of woman in men's clothing.



Will Ketchum

[Grizzle Bear]

AnnieLee said:

"One thing I'd like to request: Some folks think that women in NCOWS are prohibited from wearing pants. I've seen a few NCOWS posse pics that show women in pants. Back in our time frame, women at work wore what was prudent, especially in the winter months. That included pants. Would folks please come out and say that it's ok for women to wear pants?"

CAN O'WORMS ALERT!  CAN O'WORMS ALERT!

You are correct in saying that women are not prohibited from wearing pants.  The trick is they have to be correct pants.  What is objected to is women wearing the tight modern fitting ladies Wah-Maker type pants.  If you wear parts that are correct to the time and your character, they would be fine.  If your character is working like a man (or trying to pass as a man) wear mens trousers.  The split riding skirts are fine.  I was just reading about some of the women (wives and sweetheats, not camp followers) that traveled with Civil War regiments, having outfits like a Zouave, with the very baggy pants.

There are very few things that are cut-and-dried, black-or-white, this-or-that.  And like anything else in NCOWS, if you can document it, you can use it!

Grizzle Bear

[Kayleen]

Annie Lee,
  I have been caught at the range wearing trousers. Yes, me of all people. They are baggy, and I wear them while impersonating a Snake Oil Salesman. Best part of that was a couple of very good friends did not recognize me.
  The key to trousers is as a couple have mentioned earlier, form fitting is out. Ladies in the pictures that I have viewed wore baggy pants often times under their skirt. But I have seen pictures of gals branding cattle with skirts on.
  I don't have a problem with the split skirts or riding skirts as they are called. Don't own one though. I like the fancy stuff to much.
  LoneGunman has a book, Ladie's in Pants(?), excellent reference. If you can find 2 sources of documentation, pictures with dates are great, present it to the congress.
Kayleen

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy AnnieLee,

Welcome aboard!  Glad you finaly decided to join us here in NCOWS.

[Lou Graham]

I wore pants at the Muster and lived to tell about it

Even though ladies can be "excused" from the more strenuous stage instructions, I like to do all of it as written.  I shot one-handed and got rug burns on my elbows from the low crawl right along with the men.  Yes, I've always been a tomboy

I got a pair of 1873 Levi's specifically for the Muster because I knew we would have things to do that could not be done in a skirt and petticoat safely or without great loss of modesty and dignity.

Lou is from Seattle.  There was a great deal of  trade between San Fransisco and Seattle.  She could have easily gone down to C.C. Filson's and bought some Levi's jeans.  

[Chantilly]

I think it would be a hoot for a posse of women to shoot in bloomers    - The HUGE bloomers that were advertised and worn by some with the knee length skirt - strange looking clothing!

Lou - do you have a picture of your hunting outfit worn to the GAF banquet that you could post?  Stina is interested in seeing it and if there was one thing (or more) that I forgot - it was the camera!

[Delmonico]

I have been asked several times to do some research on the "Ladies in Pants" thing.  As we all know, there is a definate lack of many pictures,  I can think of four off hand, Little Britches and Cattle Annie, Several of Martha Jane Canary and Charlie Parkhurst.  The problem here is that folks paying to have a picture taken seldom do not dress up.  150 years from now among the photo's taken by professinal photographers you won't see many of a house wife wearing what she wore that day to clean the house.

If one goes back in time a bit to the diaries of those who crossed the overland trails you will find accounts of many ladies who disscarded the dresses that got singed around the campfire for their husbands extra pair of pants and shirt or bought them at the first store.

To think that ranch and homestead women did any less is in my opinion to do a great disservece to these ladies.  On the other side of the coin, many of us remember a Grandmother who worked around the farm in pants and shirts, but "ALWAYS" changed into a dress when visiting neighbors or going to town.  These were women who grew up at the end of the era we portray so this needs to be taken into account also.  

I often use the "Blizzard of 1888" as an example, "it's daylight, the storm has stopped in the night, your husband left before daylight to see if the children are OK since they didn't come home yesterday from school.  You have a cow to milk, the chicken coop is covered and the drifts are 8 feet high between them and the soddy, wear you prairie dress if you want, but I doubt it."

This is the results of 5 years research, I can't say yes, but I won't say no they never.  I do know the modern "show my butt" pants did not exist.  But I would bet there were more women wearing pants than many believe, just not in the general public.  

Since though the shooting done does not repersent the gay social shooting events of the time period, but are attempted to somewhat duplicate events that happened or could have happened, I would guess many ladies if push came to shove would not bother to change from "men's" clothing before defendin their home.

[Marshal Halloway]

Lou - do you have a picture of your hunting outfit worn to the GAF banquet that you could post?  Stina is interested in seeing it and if there was one thing (or more) that I forgot - it was the camera!

 

[Lars]

Thanks for posting that pic of Lou in her "Huntress" dress!! I will call Stina's attention to it.

It is really nice to see a pic of Lou in something other than her "CAS shooter" clothes!!

Lars

[Stina]

I think the pants issue very much depends on your persona.  And maybe partly on weather--we shoot at a club that goes year 'round out on the Colorado prairie, and I can tell you, it's COLD out there in November with a 20-mile-an-hour wind!  It's not an NCOWS shoot, so I can wear pretty much whatever, but if I needed to go in character, there'd surely be a pair of 'red woolies' in my life!!  And a flannel petticoat....I can't really see Swedish Stina in pants, no matter what.  But for that matter, I'm not at all sure what she's doing with revolvers!

Stina

[Chantilly]

A couple of interesting websites regarding women's reform clothing -

this one BRIEFLY mentions an article about women dressing in men's clothes -

http://www.fathom.com/course/21701733/session3.html

Another regarding Amelia Bloomer and Rational Dress Reform....  http://www.fashion-era.com/rational_dress.htm

Laughing Moon Mercantile Pattern for sporting attire - http://www.lafnmoon.com/110_ladies_sporting_costumes.html 

[Chantilly]

Off subject, but then again....not - one of the good things about NCOWS - the desire to discuss period attire - and we are on women wearing men's clothes .... still...don't you love it? -

Pretty scarce, signed 1860s, Elliott & Fry cdv of the American Civil War Heroine and Doctor Mary E. Walker (1832-1919). Walker quite a figure in her time, was a supporter of Womens` rights, tended to wear male clothing, and became a respected figure during the American Civil War. During the earlier part of the war she tried to join the Union cause, was denied a commission as a medical officer but joined as an un-paid volunteer and served as acting assistant surgeon; therefore becoming the only female surgeon in the U.S. Army. She worked in the U.S. Patent Office Hospital in Washington moving on later to serve as a surgeon on the Union front lines for nearly 2 years. Constantly crossing the confederate lines to treat civilians she was eventually arrested in 1864 and imprisoned for several months before being returned in an exchange of prisoners. In 1865 she was presented with The Congressional Medal of Honour in recognition of her efforts and contributions to the war effort; she was the only woman to be presented with this, her country`s highest honour. She was asked to give it back in 1917, which to her credit she refused to do, proudly wearing it until her death in 1919.  (Medal rescinded 1917 along with 910 others, restored by President Carter 10 June 1977.)

[Ornery Orr]

I do it just so I can get a chance to see Major Matt wear a bonnet and how many firearm mishaps Lone Gunman can have in a years time.  The other reason is once a month at Logan, IA I get to visit with River City John and shoot at the increasingly popular Gunfire In The Hills range with a great bunch of folks.

[Surly Bob]

Why I like NCOWS......I can't imagine why....