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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  NCOWS (Moderator: Will Ketchum)  |  Topic: Why I like NCOWS 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Why I like NCOWS  (Read 97663 times)
Delmonico
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« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2005, 10:15:03 am »

The buck and doe are often seen around folks who hunt and in the places they hang out.  Another common one is dogs on the door and sometime also worded "pointers" and "setters."  This of course is worded for those who don't know the differance 'tween and Irsh Setter and an English Pointer. Grin
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« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2005, 10:52:57 am »

This of course is worded for those who don't know the differance 'tween and Irsh Setter and an English Pointer. Grin

Now, IF we follow this convention, what does a Scottish Terrier do?

Lars
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Books OToole
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Michael Tatham


« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2005, 11:20:08 am »

Out houses were marked with suns (male) and moons (female; do to the lunar cycle) because a large portion of the population was illiiterate.

Books
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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2005, 12:35:01 pm »

If the rest rooms were marked for skirts and for pants, which one did Rattlesnake Jack Use?   Grin Grin Grin

In all truth ... both of them!  Wink Grin Roll Eyes

(Seein' as how the male population of the range exceeded the female by about six to one, I - and others - figured that there wasn't much harm in it ....)
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« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2005, 12:50:54 pm »

Time I jumped in with an answer to the original question starting this thread .....

The historical aspect, as well as the broader range of firearms contemplated by the rules, both appeal strongly to me as a long-time history afficionado, re-enactor and shooter of muzzle-loaders and other old-timey firearms. 

(With some chagrin, I must admit that I only just joined NCOWS, though that step was long overdue.   Matter of fact, however, I've been seriously pondering whether to even bother renewing my S*SS membership after the current year, since it will no longer afford much real benefit to me in Canada now that I will not even be receiving a printed copy of the Chronicle unless I decide to pay a significantly increased renewal fee ....  And there's more of genuine interest to me in a single issue of The Shootist than in any three or more Chronicles!)
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Michael Tatham


« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2005, 01:45:51 pm »

I've been thinking about this question alot since the GAF muster.

The short answer is:  the emphasis on historical correctness.  I did not join untill the Working Cowboy Class was started.  [I could not see the sense in requiring so many guns that you need a cart.]

During the GAF Muster another aspect came to light.  That being the open friendliness of the people.  I began this journey as a Mountain man/ buckskinner.  That group of people were not the most historically correct, but were and are the most generous and helpful folks you will ever meet.  Then I got into military re-enacting / living history.  These folks are very ticky about authenticity and quick to critisize anyone who does not interpret history the same way that they do.

NCOWS people are as friendly and generous as the buckskinners.  Many are as authentic as the ticky military living historians, with out being snooty.

There really are not any clothing police.  One of the shooters at the GAF muster was attired in such a manner that he was not any where near as appropriate as a bit player in a 1950s B western.  I am not ware that anyone said a word to him about his attire.  We just said "good shooting" and left it at that.

Suffice it to say;  NCOWS members are a great bunch of people.

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« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2005, 02:15:54 pm »

Books, you may not have been told but GAF members can emulate "Movie" type military uniforms, so the individual was probably very legal under GAF guidelines, this said without any knowledge of what the individual was dressed as....
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« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2005, 02:22:50 pm »

Ya almost hit the nail on the head Books, Historic authenticity is just someone's interpitation, one can only do the best they can with the knowledge they have.  Most of us have a specialty of knowledge, where we do better than another area.  I've never found anyone perfect, but those who whine the most about other's flaws almost always have some very bad one's in their portrayal.  

I'm know some flaws were very visable in our cook camp, we are working on hiding them better in the future, but it will never be 100%, but then I don't think anyone got a period correct sickness from spoiled food either.  Repackaging on our scale is almost impossible.

You have to admit, the honestly worn clothing with mismatched buttons, patches and holes in the soles of my boots was a nice touch toward PC. Grin

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Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.
Lars
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« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2005, 02:57:58 pm »

Actually, there were so many folks in the "old" USA West from diverse countries in Europe, Scandinavia, Brittania, slavic countries, China, etc. that just about any sort of "old fashined" dress can be documented. From my perspective, Hollywood is a poor example of anything relevant, especially if any sort of "western".

I am begining to think that any item-specific "costume" criteria that NCOWS might have might best be tossed in favor of having the individual explain the relevance of each item in his/her impression. I, for one, was wearing three items of clothing that are very specific to my persona as an immigrant assayer ("fiddlers" cap, bussarong shirt, rough-out gloves), but, not something that many (any?) NCOWS members would have been aware of. There are many more such items that I may add and many, many more personas that can be developed. Try impersonating a Morman cart pusher from Norway on his/her way to Utah, for example. In addition, us immigrants mixed items of our native dress with items available in the 1800s USA.

Lars
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Major Matt Lewis
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« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2005, 03:13:01 pm »

I think that Books made a good point here.  I am aware of the shooter and nobody said anything to him.  You know why?  Because if he does join, then he will start making the transition to something more PC.  One of the successes of the GAF Muster was to introduce potential members to NCOWS.  We did.  I had 3 folks from central Kansas as me how to form an NCOWS Posse.  They had an absolute HOOT.  They saw the NCOWS folks and the level of authenticity and wanted to do it themselves. 

I am sure people would have felt differently if somebody busted their hump about PC and they are not NCOWS members.  Something to think about.  By the way, all the NCOWS members that I saw at the Muster LOOKED great.  The potential members that shot last year made a greater effort to be authentic this year.  Something to think about.
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Major Matt Lewis
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« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2005, 03:21:37 pm »

Try impersonating a Morman cart pusher from Norway on his/her way to Utah, for example. In addition, us immigrants mixed items of our native dress with items available in the 1800s USA.
Lars

 Grin

That would be a sight...

I may be heading off topic here, but when it comes to costumes and Norway, Norwegians have a tradition of using national costumes which is based on authentic outfits used by peope in the 18th and 19th century. In fact, Norwegians wearing their national costumes would be flagging for NCOWS and authenticity if they show up at a shooting event. This is a national costume from the area in Norway where my parents were born.



Many Norwegian/Americans living in Minnesota and other states are using these kind of costumes and would be perfect for a banquet. Well, back to topic...
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« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2005, 03:31:55 pm »

Associating with like minded individuals whose interest is experiencing the mid to late 19th century frontier, increasing my understanding of the history of that period, and of course learning from them. If I could only make money doing it, heck if I could just keep more of the money I have in my saddle bags while doing it.
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Lars
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« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2005, 04:32:57 pm »

Thanks Marshall Holloway!!

I would expect that many, many NCOWS folks would be quite intrigued to learn of the extensive efforts that folks in Norway take in documenting their national costumes (bunader) or Swedes their folkdräkter.

IF Stina (short for Kristina, for the education of others) ever makes it to the Muster, she will be wearing a Swedish folkdräkt from a specific area of Sweden to the banquet. So far, I do not have a folkdräkt.

Lars

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Delmonico
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« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2005, 05:00:05 pm »

Although costume has many meanings I have come to hate the word because to most it implies something worn on Halloween.  I prefer attire, because that's what I wear all the time.  Yes I sell the clothing for a living, but I wear them everywhere because I choose to.

And I love what you wore Lars, I knew it for what it was, one of the best outfits I've seen in a long time.  As you may have noticed I'm getting away from the wide brimmed hat all the time, I often wear a head rag.
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Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.
Lars
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« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2005, 06:24:37 pm »

Delmonico,

A Chinese cook in late 1800s California Chinese attire would be a nice touch. Maybe one from China Camp? Would be great to have a nice meal based around the sun-dried shrimp they produced there (for shipment back to China).

Lars.
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Delmonico
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« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2005, 06:56:05 pm »

I am currently doing some research on this, the All You Can Eat Chinese Buffet serving Americanized versions of Chinese Food dates to the California Gold Rush.
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Mongrel Historian


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« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2005, 07:38:33 pm »

Del,

You will score some BIG Points with me if you can make a`decent batch of Sesame Chicken..... Grin
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Major Matt Lewis
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« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2005, 08:30:53 pm »

That sounds like a Gopher Grease dish, will consider it. Grin  Benes Seed is the more common period term for sesame seed. Grin
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Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.
Delmonico
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« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2005, 08:47:01 pm »

Joss I wish I had the time and could afford to come to one of your shoots with the cook camp and Gopher Grease.   Shocked Shocked  You might forget to go shoot. Grin
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Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.
Lars
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« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2005, 09:10:18 pm »

Lets see, the new NCOWS match attendee 10-point laundary list:

1) Meet old friends and make new ones.

2) Eat.

3) Ogle new outfits, new or more complete camps.

4) Eat.

5) See what late 1800s characters are new this year.

6) Eat.

7) See if Rattlesnake Jack has a double.

Cool Eat.

9) IF time permits, shoot a few stages.

10) Write note to self to not eat for the first week at home.

Lars
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Major Matt Lewis
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« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2005, 09:13:54 pm »

Joss,

Now I don't know if you know this, but at the Muster, we awarded best encampments and best outfits based on a criteria that would impress the most stringent authentisist.  (I am not sure that's a real word, but you get my point).  We had a good MANY folks at level 3.  I may have even been at level 2.   Wink

Yes, NCOWS is more than shooting, but I don't like anybody telling me what rifle I can use, and always remember, Shooting is the glue that binds this book together.  The S is for Shootists....There are no R (Reenactor) or H (Historian) in the name.  Now we are as a group greatly benefited by having both the R's and the H's in and among us.  
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Chantilly
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« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2005, 09:56:28 pm »

I am begining to think that any item-specific "costume" criteria that NCOWS might have might best be tossed in favor of having the individual explain the relevance of each item in his/her impression. I, for one, was wearing three items of clothing that are very specific to my persona as an immigrant assayer ("fiddlers" cap, bussarong shirt, rough-out gloves), but, not something that many (any?) NCOWS members would have been aware of. There are many more such items that I may add and many, many more personas that can be developed. Try impersonating a Morman cart pusher from Norway on his/her way to Utah, for example. In addition, us immigrants mixed items of our native dress with items available in the 1800s USA.

Lars

Lars , you are so right.  The costume form that was used at the GAF Muster was a "first try" and it is already undergoing some changes to account for the special items carried or worn by shooters based on persona.  Almost everyone that registered for the civilian men's contest had the "basics".  I think (but do not know for sure) that the women have more difficulty with shooting attire because 1) dresses are more difficult to shoot in and with the crawling, etc. in the Muster,and even without the crawling, they are, therefore, less desirable attire, (although, personally, I love the dresses of the period and never shoot in anything but dresses but it does take some getting used to - especially on stairs!)  2) there are fewer women involved in NCOWS that also shot the Muster, and perhaps 3) there are fewer women shooting in NCOWS (I don't know?).  The women shooting the GAF Muster did an awesome job, but let's face it, wearing a corset for shooting is difficult.  Been there, done that.  Women have a more difficult job of balancing the period clothing with the desire to do well shooting.  In addition, most of the information I have seen regarding NCOWS (MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE REGARDING NCOWS IS STRESSED HERE) is addressed to the man - ie. the three levels of authenticity do not mention women's attire at all.  Although, I must say, women usually do very well with banquet attire!

The basics list is really very helpful for people starting to put together their own period attire.  During the contest, a lot of additional information was written on the bottom of the form based on the special items and knowledge provided by shooters about their special attire.  The special items worn and carried by folks was what made the difference in the judging.  You and Books and Gripmaker (and others) exceeded expectations for attire and carried items that were based upon your chosen personas.  Very impressive, indeed!  I'd like to see 1st, 2nd and 3rd awards provided for these contests in the future; especially since NCOWS emphasizes both period attire and shooting.  I believe I am correct in stating that some people spend more time and effort on their attire than on their shooting skills because that is their primary interest with shooting secondary (or perhaps equal).  These efforts should be recognized and acknowledged if this is important to an organization.  

By the way - the balance of period attire and shooting - and the reality that there is a continuum in that balance based on peronal and posse desire -along with the great people, is what I find attractive about NCOWS.  Although I must admit, I would have had more difficulty joining the shooting ranks with only small and somewhat distant targets.  When I started shooting five years ago, I had never handled any gun of any kind....ever.  The larger, closer targets of SASS were not nearly as scarey.  While smaller, farther targets are more attractive to seasoned shooters (regardless of their speed), they are intimidating to the new or inexperienced shooter.  A balance might be nice.
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« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2005, 10:22:16 pm »

Joss, from the Bylaws, under goals of the organization:

    ORGANIZATIONAL GOALS

The National Congress of Old West Shootists was established to promote the sport of Western Action Shooting and to preserve the heritage of the Old West, 1866-1899.

Anyone that thinks that the organization wasn't formed around shooting first should have some discussions with the organizations founders...

Chantilly, NCOWS has a very large percentage of women shooters, in fact after attending a few NCOWS matches, I was very surprised by the Kansas SASS clubs that had such few women shooters.... Grin
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« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2005, 10:30:09 pm »

[Chantilly, NCOWS has a very large percentage of women shooters, in fact after attending a few NCOWS matches, I was very surprised by the Kansas SASS clubs that had such few women shooters.... Grin
[/quote]

EXCELLENT!  Great news....thanks!!  I wish there were more women shooters in Kansas!
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« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2005, 10:38:32 pm »

Chantilly,

I know that Scout is working on some enhancements for the Military Uniform Catagories.  May prove productive to work with him off line to get the persona and clothing aspects down.  For our first shot at a REAL outfit judging contest we did well I think.  We learn from the Musters too.

And Chantilly,

You are getting your wish.  We ordered Tina a pair of pistols for Christmas.
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