Author Topic: New 1876? Please comment?  (Read 22036 times)

Offline yahoody

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New 1876? Please comment?
« on: December 21, 2014, 03:46:11 PM »
I am thinking about taking a new Uberti '76 and having Turnbull or someone equally capable (and less expensive)  transform it into this!

What would your caliber choice be?  Button mag, custom LOP, pistol grip,  barrel length depends on caliber and of course nice wood and a original Wincheter checking pattern.

"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline dusty texian

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2014, 04:10:24 PM »
Yahoody, a rifle built like that has 50/95wcf written all over it. The 45/75 is my favorite cal. in the 76 . But the .50 is a good close in gun.  That would be a Beauty. ,,,,,DT

Offline yahoody

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2014, 01:46:10 PM »
or may be this..



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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #3 on: Today at 06:39:35 AM »

Offline Willie Dixon

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2014, 04:09:28 PM »
those look awfully nice.  I'm more of a fan of the straight-combed stock myself.  My buddy has one in 45-60 that we put a vernier on and took out and lined up for 500 yards.  It's a great shooter and seems awfully nice in the saddle - be it a horse or even a quad.  He's out hunting with it right now I think.
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Offline yahoody

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2014, 07:27:12 PM »
I'm with you Willie.  Had a pistol grip '73 years back.  Just had to have one.  Then found a pard that liked it even more than me.  Went back to the straight grip and don't own a pistol grip now.  Kinda been hankering for another and the '76 seems like a fun place to do  it.
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Offline Willie Dixon

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2014, 09:14:33 PM »
then there ya go yahoody! :D

and just because it isn't a pistol grip, doesn't mean it can't be drop dead gorgeous.  Check out this original:

from http://www.icollector.com/EXTRAORDINARY-AFRICAN-GAME-SCENE-CUSTOM-JOSEPH-ENGRAVED-GOLD-INLAID-WINCHESTER-MODEL-1876-LEVER-AC_i17331603

I honestly feel in terms of finish and function, nothing gets better than that style checkering on that grip too.  Good luck in your hunt
At 25, you need to follow dreams or you'll regret it later. 

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Offline frimath

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2014, 09:33:34 PM »
Yahoody!! I couldn't agree with your selection more!  I absolutely love that configuration. When you get it all sorted out please let us know. Maybe we could get a multiple discount!! JohnnyF

Offline yahoody

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2014, 09:54:06 PM »


Now we're cooking!  Beautiful gun!

Hardest part about a build like this is deciding on just one.  Really hard when you only have the funds to just may be, barely, get ONE done :)

Just finished this one for my wife with some help by the engraver.  Which got me thinking about another, way more complicated  build.   Made even harder by starting with a 1876.  But how cool would any of these 1876 rifles be to own and shoot?!

"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline yahoody

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2014, 10:14:53 PM »
Quote from: Willie
I honestly feel in terms of finish and function, nothing gets better than that style checkering on that grip too.

"H" style Winchester checkering there.  Love it.  I like the crescent butt for looks but really want to shoot this one (if it gets built) a lot!  So I ordered a toed, checkered, steel, shot gun butt pad for a 1886 last night :)  Guess I am totally committed now!  ::)

22" or 23" half round, mid weight round, or a narrow taper hex barrel?  50/95, (.50 cal. will drop some barrel weigh but 45-75 is in the run as well)  straight stock, H pattern checkering, shot gun butt.  Set the rear sight back as far as possible so the elevator just barely fits so you take advantage of what ever sight radius you do have on a short barrel.

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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2014, 07:35:08 AM »
I would do the button mag if going with the round barrel. I just like that look.

I have 73's with half round barrels with both full length and the button mags and like the look of the short magazine tube better with the round part of the barrel sticking out on it's own.
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Offline Willie Dixon

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2014, 08:30:47 PM »
k...
I'll try to help with what I can on what I know about BPCR long big guns...

the 50-95 is a wonderful round, however, I having a bad left shoulder am very glad I'm right handed.  Get my drift?

the gun will be a bit lighter, not too much a difference though going between any like barrel .45 to .50.  Honestly, they're a BIG GUN, and there's no way around that.

for long distance, say 500+ yards/meters, .45 in blackpowder is a better way to go in the long run.  Yes, the .50s get there, but the .45 has much better BC.  It's like my personal preference of the .338 Lapua vs the .50BMG.

now beyond that, honestly, what's your budget and how often are you going to shoot? are you going to cast your own bullets for example?

even in home-casting, a .50 and her amount of sheer mass is quite a bit bigger amount out of that pound of lead than a .45-90 to get the same BC.  

Then there's the brass too to consider.

beyond that, in a 22" barrel, get the best balanced and heaviest barrel that's comfy for you off-hand.  I know that makes it a crap-shoot when ordering, but you're ordering a mighty-fine piece that's mighty expensive.  It helps to hold someone else's.  Offer up ammo, whiskey after, or coffee then and there, and I'll bet they'll let you check them out.

For example, I saw at a recent gun show a beautiful 45-70 Remington Rolling block with a single-set trigger made by Pedersoli... with a Green Mountain Performance BULL barrel! :D she was only maybe 4 feet length overall! from the stock to the muzzle (she seemed as small as some 92s honest to God!)!  She was a great handling piece too, but I didn't get her because
A) not actually a fan of the rolling block
B) it scared the bajesus out of my Lady, versus say ironically a Sharps 50-90 with a 34" barrel made by Shiloh that was also there...
yep.

it's because it was so small.  the balance was very different.  Like a carbine-sized personal hand-cannon!  

I loved the concept, and may get a Sharps in that very configuration.  Definitely looking at a new barrel for my Hawken, but that's besides the point.

just trying to help you out pard.  Check to see if there's any BPCR (Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) or Traditional Muzzleloaders in your area, even if it's two hours out of the way.

trust me it's worth it, and will only help grow that appetite.  

thanks to those fine gents, I now know I like

a 32" barrelled 45-90 with a 14lb bull barrel for prone or bench.  But a 34" heavy octagon/round for all around in a 1874 sharps.  never knew that until I got out there and the pards were kind enough to let me see them.  However, that 34" she pointed grandly off-hand, but because of the weight difference in barrel, I could shoot the 14lber all day and into the next.  After just the one with the 34" off-hand, yeah... you could tell she was a mini-howitzer.

Honestly, I can only imagine a Winchester in the big rounds... and it's a dream thinking about it.  Honestly I think a 44-40 73 with 30" barrel, 44-40 66 in 24", a 76 in 45-60, and a 1874 Sharps in 45-90 is about where I'd want to be in my "ultimate dream gun cabinet" lol :D... and might as well throw in the Henry and a Spencer Carbine while I'm at it right?! :D

but beyond that, it helps looking at the full picture.  If you're going to shoot her alot, like I will mine, it helps knowing 7000 grains in a pound.  And subs actually cost less because there's more per volume vs per grain in there.  I've noticed about a 40% increase in amount of a 1lb tub of 777 over 3F goex.  Seriously.  Loaded them both up in .45 colt, and went till they were empty.  Got tons more out of Trip7. 

but it'll give you a good guestimate on how much $$ you'll spend to throw 50 rounds a month in her. ;)
At 25, you need to follow dreams or you'll regret it later. 

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Offline yahoody

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2014, 09:29:43 PM »
Good stuff Willie.  Appreciated.

I shoot a .505 on occasion.  Takes 100g of smokeless to load that one.  #1 of powder don't last long.  Built so many rifles I have lost count or care.  With a 600gr bullet the results are 100# of recoil with a under 10# rifle.  Something no one takes lightly.

Never appreciated the 1876 till I hefted a Chaparral '76 carbine @ the local gun show.   And even that took a couple of visits to the table before I was convinced.

I've had '73s, '86s and '92s in short and long barrel rifle versions, round and hexagon.  If I wanted performance with BP I'd be shooting and build a long barrel.

But if I wanted that kind of rifle I wouldn't be building a '76.  I'd build a Sharps. Remington or a '78.  A proper buffalo gun.  A needle gun.   I view the '76 as a long range injun fight'in gun.  One to shoot men and horses with.  Something a horse or a man can carry  without getting all tuckered out.  Something like the one front and center, bottom row here.


 
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Offline frimath

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2014, 10:47:19 PM »
I love your configuration. 22" round barrel, maybe even a half round, button mag ,pistol grip and checkered forend as well as the pistol grip, with a case colored frame would be my idea of an ideal ' 76 .  How about sights? What did you have in mind on that? 

I had given some thought on a pistol grip '76 but wasn't sure if there was anyone out there that would or could do it. Your project sounds wonderful and I wish you good luck on getting it completed. Looking forward to more info on this one, might like to even do one like it myself! Johnny F

Offline yahoody

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2014, 11:16:17 PM »
Sights?

Not sure.  But on my mind.  Been looking at all my old Winchester catalogs to see what was available BITD.

Saw this and liked the front.  I have some spare fixed versions that are similar in the shop that I used prior on a long barreled, deluxe '92.  But likely a plain Uberti post which I like a lot.  This intentionally won't be a 500 yard gun.  So no tang sight.

But rear is likely to be a buckhorn and ladder or just ladder and deep V.   Both front and rear needs to be durable enough to at least think about taking it out on a horse. Ranger Walter Durbin's deluxe, pistol grip, as a short rifle (23")  would be well worth replicating I think.  Like it better than the Roosevelt rifles.  Some how less of a dandy and more a working rifle.....even thought it is a deluxe.  Wish we had a picture of Sieber's 1876.  Fun way to relive some history.

Lots of options with the factory barrel if you started with a new Uberti in your caliber of choice.



or



this does look good...



"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline Willie Dixon

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2014, 12:33:00 AM »
Yahoody,

 ;D sounds like you know exactly what I'm sayin pard!  Good to know.  For a fun sub 500 yard gun, I think a ladder and that dot globe would be just fine.  Those front sights just start to get hairy when even a buffalo starts disappearing in them at 700+ yards lol  ;)  but I think for "rifle-chambered lever action" in a SASS type long-range side match, or let alone a GAF match with that "bonus" target she'd be an absolute hoot.

I'd still go a bit lighter on the load though, depending, but then again, that's if you go BP vs Sub vs Smokeless.  I'm not sure about toggle-links though with smokeless in those chambers.  I do know Trip7 hits sharper than BP.  First time in my Hawken, just to really see and more importantly feel the difference with the same mini-ball and grains per volume... wow. ;D

and on that note, I can't speak enough about Trip7 as an all-around compromise.  in other words, it don't do anything perfect.  It ain't holy black, it ain't smokeless, and in its feel, and cleaning, it does seem a bit of both.  But man, it's fun to shoot with.  

I'm going to start trying PyroP for CAS now in my C&B it's 3F so, I can't run that in my Hawken to compare, but I could get 1 or even 2F if I wanted to.  Id' rather just get real black in 3F for my open tops, but it's hard here in Az.

but if you've shot .505, then yeah, you know what recoil is!  I wouldn't be as concerned about it then in 50-95 lol.

I still say straight stock, H-checkering, full octagon, and a ladder even with a blade front, like an old Henry, would be a good saddle gun.  ;)

good luck with your rifle pard, I'm mighty jealous.  I love those big-recievered Centennials, in practically any form.

and yahoody, forgot to say, mighty fine looking 73 you have there too.  That engraving is gorgeous, and I bet she's a beaut to hold and admire!
At 25, you need to follow dreams or you'll regret it later. 

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Offline yahoody

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2014, 12:46:15 AM »
Willie,

Not going to be shooting any more than full up BP velocities.  Likely done mostly with smokeless though.

Have yet to decide between 45-75 and 45-60.  Likely be a 45-75 to be really traditional and not trying to be Tom Selleck or Steve McQueen.  But some questions now about the over size Uberti 45-75 chamber.  Recutting the chamber and setting the barrel back is such a PIA and seemingly an unnecessary expense.

But I do have the current 45-75 to sort it out prior. 

I have some ideas on who might be asked to help with the work.  Besides Turnbull any other suggestions?
"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline yahoody

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2014, 03:24:13 AM »
Zero to 60  and back again!  Happy Holidays to every one!

While discussing this project I had friend make me an offer.

New tang safety 1886 Winchester, take down, 45-70, crescent butt, checkered, pistol gripped, 26" octagon for a screaming deal.
I have the parts to change out the hammer and then ability to weld up the slot.  Then Have a second stock with a shotgun butt fitted with the checkered metal butt plate I just bought.  A little tasteful engraving and then color case the receiver,  lever, forearm cap and both butt plates.  Cut the Japan stuff off the barrel,  rechamber to 45-90.  Chop it back to 22 or 23", or what ever I can get behind the current retainer ring.  Been awhile since I cut up a '86.

Thinking this might supersede a new '76 and feed the rat.

"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline Willie Dixon

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2014, 12:32:51 PM »
not going to lie, that 86 sounds like a mighty fine weapon.

and... I'm biased towards 45-90 any day of the week.  Don't matter much which version either, they all shoot incredibly well.  Just mic the barrel, and decide the bullet shape based on that, but I know you already know all that, and enjoy her! :D
At 25, you need to follow dreams or you'll regret it later. 

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Offline yahoody

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2014, 10:23:56 PM »
Here is the donor '86.  All the right bones there.  It is about to chopped, channeled, some body work, a diet and new paint.  The new rifle will be on the way to me on Monday.  Very excited to get started on this project. 

"time leaves tombstones or dry bones"  SASS #2903

Offline Roosterman

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Re: New 1876? Please comment?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2015, 06:08:53 PM »
I'd go with a '76 tiger gun. I've handled probably a dozen originals. 50-95, 22" oct/rnd  barrel, 1/2 magazine, pistol grip and shotgun buttplate. Usually have spectacular wood to boot. These were mainly used by adventurer hunters in India. Some have english proofs.
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