Author Topic: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP  (Read 16473 times)

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« on: November 25, 2014, 06:41:00 PM »
Considering the current powder shortage, I recently scored 4 lbs of Titegroup and was happy to do so. I want to use it in .38 Spl. 130 gr loads for my wife and in my .45 ACP 1911's.

I'm not looking for recommended loads, but I've read that it is a touchy powder re: OAL and not to exceed recommended loads. It's also said to be smoky and melt bullet bases.

Comments?
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Offline Marshal Halloway

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2014, 10:33:43 PM »

I have been using Titegroup in my .38 Special Cowboy loads for about 7 years without issues.
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Offline Blackfoot

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2014, 07:10:09 AM »
In my experience what you read about Titegroup is ALL WRONG.  I use it in .38sp, .44mag, .45acp and others with lead bullets.  I haven't had any of the bad things happen that you read about.  I have used about 20 pounds.

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #3 on: Today at 08:06:01 PM »

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2014, 02:07:54 PM »
Ain't no powder going to melt bullet bases, that old saw is so laughable it ain't even funny.   

Anyone with a HS level (old school that is) of physics knows that.
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Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2014, 02:58:44 PM »
Any recommended loads for .38 Spl./130 RNFP and 158 SWC?

45 ACP with 200 SWC? A lot of my brass is GI.
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I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2014, 07:45:46 PM »
Did you bother looking on Hodgdon's website?  Bet the guys down there that develop the loads know more than the people on the board. 
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Offline Delmonico

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2014, 07:49:26 PM »
By golly i was right, they do, have a nice evening, didn't take me long, you should be able to do it too.
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Offline longinosoap

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2014, 08:35:34 PM »
My favorite powder in 38. The only powder that resulted in clean match for me. And that's saying something. Just follow the recommendations on the Hodgdon website. I tend to stay on the mild end and it works out pretty good for me.

There, I said it without being a wise guy like some on this thread.

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2014, 10:20:08 PM »

There, I said it without being a wise guy like some on this thread.

It has always amazed me someone can have access such useful information at their finger tips and have to use the same thing to ask on a board instead of doing a little work themselves.  Besides that way you get the real poop, I'd never be dumb enough to trust just anyone to just post loads and use them with out checking with the manufacture of said powder.   Yes I am wise, some are not and a little sarcasm as a teaching method might just save their butt from doing something stupid.  You have a problem with my teaching methods, fine, but they work, but not in a PC whinny world.

Been loading a long time, was a peanut farmer in the White House and I learned back when you actually had to do a little work to get info, learned the right way and learned reliable lab developed data from the powder/bullet maker is the only safe way to load.
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Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2014, 10:06:30 AM »
Look at the label on the powder bottle! ??? ???
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Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2014, 10:33:26 AM »
It has always amazed me someone can have access such useful information at their finger tips and have to use the same thing to ask on a board instead of doing a little work themselves.  Besides that way you get the real poop, I'd never be dumb enough to trust just anyone to just post loads and use them with out checking with the manufacture of said powder.   Yes I am wise, some are not and a little sarcasm as a teaching method might just save their butt from doing something stupid.  You have a problem with my teaching methods, fine, but they work, but not in a PC whinny world.

Been loading a long time, was a peanut farmer in the White House and I learned back when you actually had to do a little work to get info, learned the right way and learned reliable lab developed data from the powder/bullet maker is the only safe way to load.

Thanks for your condescending, border line insulting remarks! Read my signature line.

Like most competent, experienced  reloaders, I enjoy the comparison between the maker's data and the internet 'experts'.  Thanks for your contribution.
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Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2014, 10:35:34 AM »
Look at the label on the powder bottle! ??? ???

Are you presuming that I don't? Thanks for the vote of confidence.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2014, 01:52:41 PM »
I asked the same question on another board and received a couple of intelligent, non-insulting, non-condescending replies.

One loads 3.1 - 3.2 grs TG under 130 gr LRNFP's for his wife, a load she enjoys and shoots well. He says he has loaded many thousands of rds. with 2.7 BE with success, a standard target load not taking up much space in a case.

Even a double charge of that would not be disastrous, suggesting that the reported detonations with BE have another cause.

The other loads 2.9 TG with both 130 and 158 bullets, claiming 20,000+ to date with no issues.

Both thought the low density/case volume question a non-starter, as we've managed to survive with Bulls Eye for years. TG is known for not being sensitive re: location of the powder charge relative to the primer, a plus.

I've never shot in bulls eye matches, but I've known guys that loaded tens of thousands of 148 HBWC's over 2.7 BE on progressive reloaders. That isn't much powder in a .38 Spl. case.
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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2014, 06:35:06 PM »
No Harm meant, P.J.

Hodgdon used to post "Cowboy load Data";

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-117331.html

I can't find it now, but some of the current starting loads seem the same as the starting loads for cowboy data from the past. I'm not sure its a good idea to go too low. I know there is a temptation...
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With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2014, 10:34:19 AM »
I abhor 'wimp' loads so I wouldn't likely be having that as a problem.

Many years ago, I experimented with a S&W M60 and Bulls Eye. I wanted to see just how little powder I could use and still have the bullet clear the snubbie's barrel.
I got down to 1.5 grs (no kidding) and by shaking the pistol in a vertical position before firing, it worked. Totally impractical, but hey, I was young .....

Just read an article in 'Handloader' magazine where the author reported being part of a group sharing a Star progressive reloader. They let the powder hopper run dry without noticing. They shot a lot of rds using a test revolver with the barrel removed in order to salvage the bullets for reloading.

This very thing happened to a pal with a Star reloader who was watching a movie at the time. He did a lot of bullet pulling.
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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2014, 01:55:15 PM »


Just read an article in 'Handloader' magazine where the author reported being part of a group sharing a Star progressive reloader. They let the powder hopper run dry without noticing. They shot a lot of rds using a test revolver with the barrel removed in order to salvage the bullets for reloading.



Wonder why they didn't pull the bullets and save the bullets AND primers?
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Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2014, 03:17:24 PM »
I've had occasion to pull the taper crimped bullets from 300 9mm cases. It ain't fun.
The gun they were loaded for refused to feed them (RNFP's) needing RN or nothing.

Now I load no more than 50 of a new load. Some guys need to learn the hard way .... me among them.
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I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2014, 03:21:04 PM »
Wonder why they didn't pull the bullets and save the bullets AND primers?

Ask Charles Petty. I enjoy his writings as he doesn't mind talking about dumb things he's done. Liked Skeeter Skelton for the same reason.
Skelton once told of pulling a 1911 with a too light trigger out of the glove box and touching it off through the firewall of his pickup trying to shoot a Texas jack.

I've had a couple of AD's I still don't like to talk about .....
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline Crow Choker

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2014, 02:37:35 PM »
Hi PJ; greetings from your neighbor to the south! I've used Titegroup for 45 ACP for approx. six yrs now and am well pleased with it. I mostly use it for 200-230 g. cast lead and also with some 230 g. FMJ. No problem with 'dirty burnin or bullet base meltin'(that's a new one-as previously posted "impossible"-that would take more powder than you could stuff in a brass case). I generally load around 4.4-4.6 grains of Titegroup for 45 ACP, depending on the bullet. Good for target/plinking work. I've never loaded any 38 Spec with it.

 I use to load a lot of 38 Spec with Bullseye (2.7 g) and Win 231 (3.0 g) using WC and SWC bullets back in my law enforcement days when I shot PPC and Combat courses with my Colt Trooper. Started out with 2.7 g Bullseye, then went to Win 231 which was a cleaner burning powder. Still use 231 for 45 Colt and some 38 Spec loads for the wife to keep her shooting skills somewhat up to par. Once upon a time I had the idea of getting the best 38 Spec load for competition, so I started out with 2.5 g of Bulleye and went up a tenth of a grain until I reached 3.0 grains. Loaded around 25 rds of each loading, after sort of bench resting each powder weight, I found that the old org loading of 2.7 was the best and for the type of shooting I was doing, ie, double action using a two handed grip, the different weight grain loadings didn't make all that much difference. Same thing I tried back in my early days of loading when I would set my powder measure at 2.5 grains and then trickle in the last .2 of a grain, just so that the round would have 'the exact' amount of powder. Now nothing wrong with perfection, I strive for every round to be so, but for the fast double action shooting I was doing, it was a waste of time. The plus/minus tenth of a grain my RCBS powder measure may be throwing was of no consequence in hitting the silhouette targets at 7-25 yards. It wasn't like I was loading a high power rifle and trying to get 1/2" ragged holes at a 100 yards.

I think you'll like Titegroup. The Hodgon selling point of not being position sensitive was a big plus in my starting to use it, also it is not temperature sensitive, and is clean burning and accurate in all of my experience's. When I load a new powder/bullet recipe for any caliber, esp when I read it on a website or in a magazine article, I always check out the manufacturer's recommendations and check my manuals to see what they say and how they compare with the reported loadings. 'Handloader magazine', Oct. 2014, #292 if you don't have it, has a mutli-caliber article on using Titegroup. I like the powder and plan on using it for loadings I previously used Win 231 a lot for and in developing new loadings. By the way, I also have a few gaffs over the years in loading and shooting-better left alone for another day!!!   Good day to ya! Crow Choker
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Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: Titegroup in .38 Spl. and .45 ACP
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2014, 05:54:35 PM »
Hey Crow Choker! Greetings from the Great White North.

Woke up to -35C (-30F) this am. No wind and dazzling sunshine. Finished digging out from the blizzard we had two days ago that deposited 2-1/2' of powder snow. After plowing out our 500 yd driveway, I did the same for a neighbour whose husband spends his winters in Bali flying tourists around. Must be hell .... ;>)

We're on our 3rd day without water. The pump motor packed it in, ironically just hours before a 12 hour power outage. Parts on order. Been picking up water and showering at the Gen Store that runs a year round campground.
Needed the shower after I trudged through the snow on our x-country trail on snowshoes to pack it down.  We use traditional babiche (raw hide) snowshoes as we consider the modern plastic/aluminum ones useless in deep snow.

But back to TiteGroup .....

I couldn't believe the bumpf I read on the net about it. Dangerous, gonna blow up your gun, melt bullet bases, etc. Haven't loaded one rd with it as yet, but will be doing so ere long (.38 Spl.) as I'm going to save my remaining Red Dot for .45 ACP and 44-40.

As far as dumb things I've done and survived, I could write a book. I've never blown up a gun (yet) or shot myself or anyone else, but I've made almost every reloading fox paw I've read about without causing a disaster.

A pal that bought one of the first Dillon progressive reloaders was the envy of a lot of people, including me. I was loading 500 rds a week on an RCBS Jr. single stage press that I still have. My buddy had a jam in the primer feed tube and used a straightened coat hanger to un-jam it. That was a mistake ...

This was before Dillon offered a steel primer sleeve over the feed tube. He suffered a series detonation that took a piece of ligament out of one of his fingers. He found it plastered against a filing cabinet beside his loading bench. That ended his reloading career as far as his wife was concerned.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

 

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