How I reload for my 1865 Spencer

[Jack Wagon]

I see some reloading and app questions on the Cas City forum. Since I regrettably have not participated lately, I set up my little pocket camera to record how I load for my Spencer. The process has evolved over the years as components became available or unobtainable. I still play around with bullet lube and hardness, but this is the load I currently use with good results. If you reload for an original 1865 you my find this of some interest.  JW

[Blair]

Jack,

Nicely, well done video.
Thank you for posting it.
My best,
 Blair

[El Supremo]

A really nice video, Jackwagon:

Thanks for sharing.  An 1865 rifle and 2014 camera joined with lots of experience. 
Bravo Zulu.
Regards, Kevin

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[Two Flints]

Terrific video Jack, and it has been added to the SORI Thread.

Two Flints

[treebeard]

Thanks for this excellent video--now I will have to pick up some APP and give it a try.

[Coal Creek Griff]

Very well done. Thanks!

CC Griff

[Herbert]

Is APP the same as Alliant BLACK MZ.I loaded some cartridges to your spects and I got good accuracy but noticed the load seemed a bit hotter than the 40gr FF black load I use in my original Burncide Spencer,my crono is out of action now so I can only go by felt  recoil which does seem a bit stiffer,have you got any record what velocity you are getting from this load and have you any any imformation what pressure ratings compared to real black powder this powder gives

[Jack Wagon]

Herbert    I believe Alliant Black MZ and APP are both citric-based powder. Beyond that, I do not know if they are the same animal. I do not own a chronograph or have any accurate way to compare pressure. In my case with Shockey's Gold, I do not preceive anymore recoil ( maybe slightly less ) than with my 2f Dupont black powder loads. Keep us informed with your experiments with Alliant Black MZ. JW

[Herbert]

Until I can get some pressure test data for for BLACK MZ I will be doing my testing with my re-lined Armi Sports 56-50 Spencer.So far I have  used 35grs of Black MZ and tried 3 types of bullets all sized to .516 ,Rapine 350-.520,Rapine 375-520 and the NEI 395-523 with the NEI bullet giving the best accuracy,I have tried CCI br 2  LR primers,CCI LPP and CCI LPP with under primer wad with the CCI LPP giving the best results.I tried  Lee Liquid Alox for lube but for some reason I was getting sticky extraction so I changed to my BP lube(bees wax and olive oil)this fixed the extraction problem.Tests were done of the bench at 50 meters ,5 shot groups,best group was all holes touching repeated 3 times to be sure ,this load was Starline 56-50 brass,CCI LPP 35grs BLACK MZ ,no over powder wad ,NEI 395-523 Bullet sized to .516 lubed with bees wax olive oil mix.I then tied it on the 200 meter 12 inch  gong and after getting the sights set hit it 15 times in a row I gave others a go and all had no trouble hitting it,we fired 40 rounds without cleaning and the was no change in accuracy and barrel was cleaned up with just a couple of patches and a drop of Hopies 9 ,no leading.All thing taken into acount this seems to be a very good BP sub but I just can not get over the thought that I am cheating when useing it in BP compitition,this does not stop me useing it when hunting pigs

[Jack Wagon]

Herbert   I just picked up a block of beeswax, what is your bullet lube recipe. Do you pan lube it or run it through your sizer? Your load is yielding great results. The bore on my carbine is far from perfect, I'm not sure how much accuracy I can realistically expect out of her. Black MZ and APP are legal for SASS/ CAS black powder competition, I don't know what your club rules are but doesn't sound like cheating to me.  JW

[Herbert]

My LUBE mix is 50x50 bees wax and olive oil to start with.I like the lube to be firm but not hard so depending on the heat I add more wax for hot weather or more oil for colder weather.I pan lube then push the bullets trough a custom Lee sizer.My AS rifle has the barrel relined with a 1 in 36 inch twist and this with other work I have done on it makes it a very reliable and accurate Spencer.The BLACK MZ powder is allowed at my club but cleaning during a match (13 shots) is not so the BLACK MZ has a big fowling advantage so I do not use it in matches,this is no problem as my BP load using 45 grs Wano PP compressed in cut down 32 ga shot shells NEI 395gr .523 sized to .516 bullet sparked with CCI LPPs with under primer wad gives very good accuracy to 200 meters,though it does start to fowl out after 10 shots on some days