Author Topic: Slim Jim holster historically accurate  (Read 9496 times)

Offline TwoWalks Baldridge

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Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« on: October 14, 2014, 09:42:24 AM »
Since, NCOWS, is based on historical accuracy, I figured this would be the best place for this question:

Historically did Slim Jim holsters ever have cant or were they all made with straight drop?

If they did have cant, could anyone point me to an internet based provenance?

Thanks TwoWalks
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Offline St. George

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2014, 10:23:39 AM »
None of the originals I own or that I've observed in person were canted - all are straight drop - and they were meant to be worn high.

That said, the loop on pretty much every accurately-done Slim Jim is on the narrow side, and the weight of the piece could and would cause the leather to stretch if worn on the off-side - the most comfortable side for a mounted man.

Later, I'll check my copy of Rattenbury's 'Packing Iron', to see if there's any difference - but I doubt so.

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Offline TwoWalks Baldridge

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2014, 11:33:44 AM »
St George, thank you kindly for your reply.  This picture is what made me wonder and the picture is not dated or the maker listed.
It looked to me like there was cant built in from the angle of the loop.
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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #3 on: Today at 03:38:35 AM »

Offline St. George

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2014, 02:34:07 PM »
Back then, the idea was to safely contain the piece deeply in the hull to protect it.

That was true of the later 'Mexican Loop' styles, as well - the reason they have a perceived cant on the off-side was because the leather folded from rain and the weight of the weapon being carried there for convenience of the rider - it wasn't purpose-formed.

Today, gunleather's provided with all manner of degrees of cant or rake - but 'back in the day' folks didn't look at their sidearm as a piece of 'sporting equipment' and didn't try to eke out every mechanical edge possible over their 'competition' - they just ordered a new holster from one of the mail order houses, or went into town and bought one from the hardware store that most likely had been made back East somewhere, and wore it until it was worn out.

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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 07:19:13 AM »
It is not necessary to have a holster specifically made with a cant on the loop to wear it in a crossdraw manner. If made like most original holsters with a narrow loop and worn high with the belt snug you can position the holster how you like. Also as someone said Slim Jims made like the originals many times have a tenancy to lean from the weight of the grip anyway.

I many times when shooting NCOWS wear a holster as a crossdraw but none of my personal holsters specifically made as a crossdraw, I just position them on my belt that way.

I have seen a couple examples of older Mexican loop holsters that were made crossdraw but it was of the later period styles and I would venture to say there is a good chance they were made made after 1899.

If someone orders a crossdraw holster from me for NCOWS use I generally tell them I have seen nothing in the NCOWS rules that addresses it but I personally feel it is very questionable and not really appropriate if someone is serious about their persona.
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Offline TwoWalks Baldridge

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 08:20:08 AM »
St George and Cliff, thank you to both.  As usual, you are a great resource for learning.

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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2014, 09:28:12 AM »
I have noticed that due to my more-than-a-sixpack belly, that a straight-hang holster will take a bit of a forward tip when worn strong side. Conversely, when the same holster is worn crossdraw it takes a tip to the front as well.  

The cant is not very much, but just enough to make the butt easy to get at; - both ways.
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Offline bushwhacker

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2014, 10:50:53 AM »
TwoWalks,  I am the NCOWS Judge.  Sorry I have been out of town and just saw this .  I think you have already got your answer.  I have never seen an original and doing a computer search I cannot find an orginal with a cant built in it.  I use a slim jim and as others have said it will tilt forward slightly from the weight of the handle.  In my case with my gut it tilts a lot!  Thanks to everyone who has joined in on this thread.  That is the great thing about NCOWS.  Ask and you will get the information you need.  Bushwhacker

Offline ChuckBurrows

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 11:00:07 AM »
I'll also agree that with Slim Jim's anyway the cant was never built in - that's an odd loop on the holster you posted - appears that someone added the upper rivets to shorten the loop and/or make it ride higher.
On the other hand there are examples of Mexican loop style hoslters with a built in cant - there's at least on Heiser built holster with such a cant in Packing Iron.
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Offline St. George

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 03:39:53 PM »
Chuck's right on the fact of some Mexican Loop holsters having a built-in cant.

My personal one that I used in NCOWS is a late 1890's R.T. Frazier of Pueblo, Colorado-built, floral-carved, Mexican Loop that was made specifically as a cross-draw holster, but misidentified in 'Packing Iron' as having a rearward rake to facilitate fast draw.

Worn on a money belt rig and snugged up, the Colt molds perfectly into my left hip.

But - that holster came later, after the popularity and wide use of the Slim Jim had passed.

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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 09:22:40 AM »
I really question (and highly doubt) whether that RT Frazier holster was made prior to 1899.

Frazier worked for Gallop then was partners for a few years and didn't start his own saddlery until right at the turn of the century.

That said I have a customer using a holster of mine based on that particular holster in Packing Iron and shoots NCOWS with it. It's not (in my opinion with no offense intended) something I think would work in the Originals category or for anyone serious about a particular 1800's persona.
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Offline cavsgt

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 03:47:16 PM »
  The two original Slim Jim holster that we have are both CW Cavalry holsters with the flap cut off.  I suspect that they would have been common with the surplus available after the war.  They will not to my understanding be allowed because of the butt forward draw.

Offline ChuckBurrows

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 04:50:52 PM »
  The two original Slim Jim holster that we have are both CW Cavalry holsters with the flap cut off.  I suspect that they would have been common with the surplus available after the war.  They will not to my understanding be allowed because of the but forward draw.

Worn cavalry style with butt's forward probably not, but wear them on the opposite hips with butts rearward or carry only one as a cross draw and you should be fine except for the most persnickety RO's.
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Offline cavsgt

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2014, 09:47:47 PM »
  Sabre belt with 2 modified cavalry holsters would be a neat rig for a left hander. 

Offline Will Ketchum

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2014, 10:28:25 PM »
 The two original Slim Jim holster that we have are both CW Cavalry holsters with the flap cut off.  I suspect that they would have been common with the surplus available after the war.  They will not to my understanding be allowed because of the butt forward draw.
It is allowed in NCOWS to wear butts forward if you can demonstrate to the RO you can draw safely.  Montans Slim has used that type of draw for years with cap & ball revolvers, winning many National matches and shooting clean in at least one of them.

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Offline Montana Slim

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2014, 11:01:33 PM »
I hope everyone is well....I'm hanging-in there & contemplating retirement options (1-3 yrs..or less).
I gravitated to the slim-jim style holster when I was a youth. Had to make my own since none of the shops in my hometown carried anything other than drop-loop style holsters, plus I was was on a tight budget. I settled on a strong-side reverse draw style because it allowed me to carry a long-barreled pistol very comfortably. Carried high on the waist, one can sit, stand, crouch and the pistol is not a bother and instantly accessable. When I got into cowboy shooting, I learned the style was high on "authenticity"....probably popular with the old-tymers for same reasons I found. Also found a straight down orientation easiest to work with, and allows a twist-draw without breaking the safety plane. I find the twist-draw easiest with my 1860 Colts. Having the larger grip makes grabbing/twisting easier (IMO).

Since I have the bugs worked out with my 1860s & technique, I'm currently working with a new pair of 1851 Navys. At least I'm liking the reduced blast effect and recoil during range sessions. Good to keep the mind occupied.

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Offline Horseapples

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Re: Slim Jim holster historically accurate
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2015, 03:46:52 PM »
I think there's a civilian flap holster, an early one in Packing Iron (possibly the one with the indian archer embossed on it and the brass pipe tip) that Rattenbury says is made with a canted loop.

 

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