Rogers and Spencer C&B pistols?

[Bruce W Sims]

Thanks, Major..... that was exactly what I was trying get my head around.

Still learning....

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Blair]

Bruce,

That is exactly what I am trying to get my head around as well.

Never mind... I'm done trying to get info that is not being posted.
You all have fun.
Blair

[Pony Racer]

I use 25 grains with my Rogers and spencer pistols with a wad and 454 ball.

it never fails if I do my job!

PR

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[rifle]

The German gun and Pedersoli have shallow grooves in the barrel. Very shallow. The Centaure Centennial 1860 Army is akin to those as well.

Shallow grooves seal the gases more consistantly and deform the projectile less fer more accuracy. The German and the Pederesoli are target guns that like less powder fer the balls not stripping thru the rifling. They can handle normal loads also ,I'd imagine, like other shallow groove pistol barrels I've shot.

The accuracy can fall off in a cap&baller when the rifling engraved on the ball is deep and reacts to the centrifical forces and the air. Like a golf ball that can slice or hook or a baseball thrown as a curve ball with it's stiches. It's negligble unless one can shoot like a ramsom rest to eliminate the human error.......... like I have to do with a Uberti Paterson pistol with those eleven deep grooves in the barrel.  I up the loads since I like heavier loads in cap&baller but....install a dovetailed front sight to offset the "curve ball" anomaly.

The above can explian why some single actions like to shoot a lil left fer no apparent reason. The slow rifling twist fer a gun shootin balls helps eliminate some of the anomaly.
Of course.........I have a Centaure or two that have a 1-18 twist to the barrel and they do really well with thier shallow grooves in the barrel even with heavier loads.

Anywhooooo....the light loads are fer target pistols with shallow grooves in the barrels. I inquired at Pedersoli once and was told the R&S had rifling .001 inch deep.

[Blair]

The loads listed in Tom Kelley's article are, for the competition revolver shooters within the N-SSA. Meant only as a "Starting Point" for the individual to work up their own loads. Tom Kelley states this in his article.
My best,
 Blair

[Bruce W Sims]

Hey Rifle:

You keep talking about your "balls" and thats to the good because I intend to
stay with .454 in my Colt as well. Question comes to mind, though.....how
much of everything you have shared in the way of physics remains the same if
a.) I use a full load  -  35 grains of 3f and
b.) I use a bullet rather than a ball.  Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[rifle]

Off hand I'd say nothing stays the same going from balls to bullets with max loads of powder if considering physics. That doesn't mean the bullets won't shoot well though.

I've seen 45 bullets can shoot well even in a slow twist 1-32 twist barrels. My Pietta Remingtons shoot real well using bullets that I use in 45 Colt cartridges. Smokeless powder.

I'm not sure if a R&S could get 35gr. FFFg  black powder in the chamber with a bullet. The 45 bullets have to travel  fast enough to stabilize and spin fast enough.The longer the bullet the faster the twist need be. A shorter 45 bullet would be best compared to a longer one I'd guess.
Revolvers chambered for the 45 bullets have a faster twist around 1-16 or 1-18 to stabilizre the bullets. Funny thing though.....the 45 bullets shoot really well from a Pietta Remington with a 1-32 twist to the barrels so I'd imagine the R&S would too.

Bullets wouldn't be affected by the lands engraved on them by the rifling and spinning really fast like a ball shot from a revolver with deep rifling. Rodgers and Spencers don't have overly deep rifling so if the ball isn't pushed really fast to strip thru rifling it'll shoot alright. Probably shoot well if shot with a max load of black. People do it all the time. The ball has to fit the barrel well though so the chambers that size it need be the right diameter.

Any whooo......it all depends on the R&S a person has. The target gun would do well with a lesser load because of the shallow grooves and the standard R&S would do well with lesser loads and hot loads because of the deeper grooves to the barrels. Deeper grooves like the EuroArms R&S has. Deep meaning about .004 inch.

If an Hombre loaded a bullet in any of the R&S revolvers with a max load (whatever that  would be depending on the length of the bullet) I bet they would shoot well if the bullet seals the grooves and "is loaded straight" in the chamber. The bullet would need to fit really well with a heel to it that set the bullet in the chamber straight and the bulk of the bullet swagged in tight. That's with the cap&ball cylinder.
Finding a bullet that fits would be difficult. Finding a bullet with the right size heel that goes in the chamber easily but....is snug so as to set the bullet straight and the bulk of the bullet that swags and seals the chamber at least .003-.004 in. bigger than the chamber diameter so it's tight.
Heal bullets aren't known fer being really accurate most times since they don't usually fit well. They have to fit the chamber really well so the smaller heal part is snug in the chamber and then the bigger body of the bullet is swagged to the same diameter by the chamber so the whole bullet is the same and correct diameter for the barrels grooves. That means the chambers need be the right size fer the barrel grooves.

In order to get that the heel that won't fit in the chamber perfectly tight (so it can go in) needs to be hollow based to swell tight to the chamber walls when the powder ignites. You know...hollow based heel bullet. That's a custom order size to get a mould to cast those bullets. The skirt to the hollow based bullet needs to be sorta thick so it doesn't flare when it first clears the barrel.

It would be easier to just shoot the right size bsalls instead of bullets unless the bullets are shot from cartridges with a conversion cylinder. The chambers of the cap&baller cylinder need to be right at the groove diameter of the barrel or .001-.003 in. bigger than the grooves in the barrel. Whatever the shooter likes but at least the same chamber diameter as the barrel groove diameter.

[Bruce W Sims]

Many thanks....that last paragraph touched on another bit I had been
entertaining: whether or not to use cast bullets rather than balls.
Think I'll stay with the balls.

It would probably be harder to make a single cartridge with the powder and ball contained than
with the bullet shape with its nice flat end. All the same I think the performance for the ball would be
plenty ....for me. Thanks again.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Pony Racer]

I thought you had meant conicals designed for use in the BP revolvers...

Might be interesting to test out balls and conicals...

PR