Help on original 1876 Winchester Barn Find Project with pics Finally!

[oldguncrazy]

Hi Blair, I don't see anything yet. I just sent Grizzly a message about it. I read one site that said the other calibers didnt come available until 1879. Dont know if thats true. Im trying to slowly lift the rust and dirt off with a scotch brite pad and oil soaks. Its a slow process. Its definitely a 45 caliber but the chamber looks pretty straight.

[oldguncrazy]

This is what it looked like with when I first got it. Bone dry and crusty

[Blair]

oldguncrazy,

The SS number you indicate was made in 1878.
In "The Winchester Book" by George Madis, he states the first cartridge caliber the '76 was produced in was .45-75.
This is a slightly bottle necked casing. (You would not be able to see this if looking down the barrel from the muzzle.)
The SS # you list also indicates a period of production where Winchester changed from a screw mounted "dust" cover guide on top of the receiver to a guide manufactured as part of the receiver.
Check to see if your rifles dust cover guide is held on with screws?
My best,
 Blair

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[oldguncrazy]

 Thanks so much for the info Blair, the guide is definitely screwed on.

[oldguncrazy]

The plug in the bore is because its soaking. it looked like a sewer pipe but now the rifling is very strong and the bore is getting some shine. There is scattered pitting but its not nearly what I thought it was going to be.

[Blair]

oldguncrazy,

You have is what "Madis" calls a second model or type II '76. (according to Madis)
The transition from the type II to the type III start around SS # range of # 7000.
The original '76's offered no dust covers. The second variation offered a dust cover as an option, but with the screw held guide/ramp.

Your Rifle may not have a cartridge caliber marking on it. (There was only one offered at the time, .45-75. and that was unique to the '76).
A very worth while salvage project, even if you never shot it.
I hope this has helped.
My best,
 Blair

[oldguncrazy]

Thanks so much for your time Blair, that definitely answered my questions. Huge help. Ill continue to post updates.

[Blair]

old gun crazy,

Please do.

And if you don't mind  me suggesting... please stay away from the gun with a Scotch Bright pad. And never go after it with a wire wheel.
My best,
 Blair

[oldguncrazy]

Im being very careful, its the green kitchen pad with 3and 1 oil. Mainly using a rag. im not removing the finish just the active red rust. No steel wool or wire wheels I promise! If you have any suggestions on this type of cleaning let me know. Its a plumb brown. I just want to stop the deterioration and get it slick on the inside.

[Blair]

oldguncrazy,

Wet and dry sand paper. With a flat wood block to support it. This helps keep all the flats flat and edges clear.
Stating very lightly with 380 and going finer.
Water and/or a light weight oil.

Should you want to keep the dull gray/brownish like finish, wipe it down with Birchwood Casey "Rust and Blue Remover", and re-oil.
Best I can offer without actually seeing the firearm.
My best,
 Blair

[oldguncrazy]

Thanks again for all the info. Ill give it a go. Wouldn't the Caseys remove the finish down to the white? I thought about stripping it since it was so badly surface rusted but now after so many oil soaks it really smoothing out and its a really nice patina. Im just trying to be very careful and patient.

[Blair]

oldguncrazy,

If it were new, and you wanted to antique it, I would say you are correct, but, I think you are just a bit beyond new and antiquing that firearm.
My best,
  Blair

[Buck Stinson]

With no caliber marking, it is a .45-75.  I don't want to burst your bubble, but if you had left it in it's "as found" condition it would have been worth a considerable amount to those of us who collect relics.   An 1876 Winchester in relic condition is highly desirable and hard to find.

[oldguncrazy]

Hi Buck,

I honestly thought about leaving it. Besides the bolt and toggles I haven't altered it. It was so full of gunk and rust it would have ate itself from the inside out. Im just stopping and removing the active rust with lots of oil. I bought it as a relic ,but thought it would be a waste of a historical firearm to let it continue to deteriorate. Had it been in worse shape I wouldn't have started. I plan on keeping it and hopefully shooting it. Believe me, it still looks like a relic.

[oldguncrazy]

Hi all, just wanted to give a quick update. The bore has come out nice. Definitely a shooter. Strong rifling and only scattered pitting. The chamber is pretty smooth so I dont think case expansion is going to be a problem. I want to assure the purest that Im not attacking the finish like an Ethiopian on a pizza. I soak it down with oil and take a rag and lightly, I mean lightly, rub until a red slurry paste lifts.I have used a green kitchen pad on raised extremely rough patches of rust. Again very lightly. The plumb brown finish is still very thick and intact and it will stay that way. I have not touched or sanded the wood, Its almost petrified and I love it. My intention is to keep it as close to the original condition as possible but I didnt want to have my hands red and dirty everytime I handled it. As far as the inside ive soaked the bolt and toggles in evaporust because they were so badly corroded. They are already flash rusting and I will oil them after. Hope this clarifies, I thought about stripping it down at one point, but that was more tthinking out loud. Ive owned original Sharps, Spencers and an original Trapdoor trials rifle. I would not just go crazy with a grinding wheel and sandpaper. Just decided that Id like to shoot this rifle and enjoy it instead of look at it on the wall if possible. Thanks for everyones help and interest.

[Buck Stinson]

It sounds like you have everything covered as far as preserving the rusty history that covers the rifle.  I might also suggest that the wood be left alone.  No cleaning, sanding or oiling.  Wood grunge is very important when preserving the history of a relic.  I did record you serial number on my list and appreciate your contacting me via private message.  I also wanted to add that this gun originally went into the warehouse as an open top and was later, brought back into the factory from the warehouse and had the dust cover and rail added.  If you get a Cody letter on this serial number, it probably has the comment "lid" or "with lid".

[oldguncrazy]

Wow thats amazing Buck! Im going to get a Cody letter at some point. Do you have a reference book that contains this information? Also, I have talked to Bob Knapp about replacement parts but really would like to find original ones for it. Do you know of any sources for them?  Im assuming its just a needle in a haystack and alittle luck of running across them at the right time. I haven't even wiped the stocks down, I thought about buying a repro set for shooting and putting them up. Id hate for it to split while shooting. Thanks again for the info, Ive always collected military firearms but really have fell in love with the history of the Winchesters.

[oldguncrazy]

Here's the stocks. Is there anytype of protective wax that will seal in the old dirt and finish without cleaning it? Also, the butt stock does not have holes drilled for cleaning kit and the butt plate is solid. Is it a replacement or did the early models not have the trapdoor and cleaning rod? Its alot darker in person, I guess the flash lightens it up

[Blair]

oldguncrazy,

Do you have any good photos of the upper surface of  the dust cover on your Rifle? Post them if you would please?

Just my prospective based on past postings, you own the gun, do with it as you wish within safe shooting limits of course.
I may offer you suggestion as to what to do or not to do based on your postings. But I wont Tell you what you can or can't do. That choice as the owner is yours and yours alone.
My best,
 Blair

[oldguncrazy]

I will take a photo when I get home. You just need a picture of the thumbprint area? I really appreciate everyones info and suggestions. I was trying to clarify that I have seen horribly cleaned firearms and its a shame. Im just a tinkerer and thankful for any tips or advice. I wont butcher it and im going very slow. It took 2 months to get it apart.