Ruger New Vaquero questions.

[hp246]

New to this game.  I'm sure some of these questions have been answered somewhere, but I couldn't find them.  I have a pair of stainless NVs in .45 Colt.  One is an older Montado that I bought for my back up deer gun quite awhile ago.  The second is a new one I just bought for this game.  The Montado seems to have a smoother and lighter hammer and trigger than the new gun, though both are crisp without creep. 
1.  Were there any increased quality control on the Montado over the stock NV or is this because of different spring rates? 
2.  What are the stock spring # of these guns (I've seen two different numbers published 23 # and 17 # for hammer)
3.  What hammer spring works reliably with all primers.  Looking at the Wolffs, but there seems to be quite a variation.
4.  Does SASS still ban the Montado gripframe?  If so, where can I find stainless Ruger NV gripframe?  I didn't see it at Brownells.

[Pettifogger]

1.  No.
2.  You have to look carefully at the "stock" spring rates as the "Vaquero" and "New Vaquero" have different springs.  The spring rate in the New Vaquero is lower.
3.  Impossible to tell.  It depends on YOUR gun and its state of tune.  I have gone as lower as 12 pounds on a tuned gun with the transfer bar removed.  On a stock gun you should be able to go down to 14 pounds.
4.  The Montado gripframe with the serrations on front (newer ones don't have the serrations) are not SASS legal for ground shooters.  The Montados were originally marketed to mounted shooters and the serrations are OK for mounted shooting.  Finding a NV gripframe is very hard.  Ruger doesn't sell them so basically you are looking for a takeoff where someone has done some custom gun work.  Easier to grind the serrations off the Montado gripframe and repolish it.  You can also take some JB Weld, fill the serrations and then file them down to the frame surface.


http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/mainspring-parts/mainsprings/new-vaquero-blackhawk-reduced-power-hammer-springs-prod26649.aspx

[hp246]

Thanks for the reply Pettifogger.

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[Mule Ear Mortensen]

Does the same spring set work for the new model V bisley.

[rickk]

While someone could have already worked a bit on your Montado, most people seem to agree that Rugers get better as you use them.

There was a time where you had a bit of room for improvement on an out of the box Ruger, but in the last few years they removed most of the need for that. 

It is almost disappointing ;-)

The last three that I bought (all in the last three years) I did nothing with... I just took them out of the box and shot them.  I couldn't find anything that really needed improving.

Rick

[cal44walker]

I'd have to disagree that newer Rugers don't need any work on out of the box. I've worked on a bunch and while they are tough as a tank they are, on average, far from perfect. I'd even go so far as to call them sloppily assembled to be honest. Too much endshake, oversized cylinder pin hole, barrels that are so tightly screwed on that they constrict around the frame then expand half way down the barrel and then tighten up again. Poorly fitted hands, burrs on the insides, poorly machined ratchet surfaces etc etc. They function quite well despite this and last forever but most of the ones I've had on my bench need a lot of cleaning up and tweeking to be where I would want them.
My own .38 NMV race guns have oversized cylinder pins, custom made cylinder bushings, new wider German silver front sights, machined rear sight grooves, Shotgun Boogie short stoke kits, Shotgun Boogie springs all round, modified firing pins and major deburrring and polishing of all internals. They are the most reliable and smooth handguns I've ever owned. Rugers make a good base gun to work with.

cal44walker

[Pettifogger]

I'd have to disagree that newer Rugers don't need any work on out of the box. I've worked on a bunch and while they are tough as a tank they are, on average, far from perfect. I'd even go so far as to call them sloppily assembled to be honest. Too much endshake, oversized cylinder pin hole, barrels that are so tightly screwed on that they constrict around the frame then expand half way down the barrel and then tighten up again. Poorly fitted hands, burrs on the insides, poorly machined ratchet surfaces etc etc. They function quite well despite this and last forever but most of the ones I've had on my bench need a lot of cleaning up and tweeking to be where I would want them.
My own .38 NMV race guns have oversized cylinder pins, custom made cylinder bushings, new wider German silver front sights, machined rear sight grooves, Shotgun Boogie short stoke kits, Shotgun Boogie springs all round, modified firing pins and major deburrring and polishing of all internals. They are the most reliable and smooth handguns I've ever owned. Rugers make a good base gun to work with.

cal44walker


+1.  Most folks that are happy with stock out-of-the box guns aren't competitors.  If you shoot at a competitive level, then Rugers and every other stock single action can use a lot of work.  Some people get the false idea that this work is only done by "gamers" and done solely for speed at the expense of reliability.  Top shooters fire or dry fire tens of thousands of rounds a year.  Properly done action work does facilitate SPEED, after all MATCHES are speed events.  However, action work is primarily done to enhance durability.  For many, many shooters simply changing springs will make a huge difference in the feel of a Ruger and for many that is all they will ever need.

Mule Ear, yes the same springs also fit the New Vaquero Bisley.

[TheOtherLeft]

Impossible to tell.  It depends on YOUR gun and its state of tune.  I have gone as lower as 12 pounds on a tuned gun with the transfer bar removed.  On a stock gun you should be able to go down to 14 pounds.

Is a #14 mainspring still reliable with all types of primers? At the moment I use Federal but CCI are quite plentiful but I understand CCI are quite a lot harder and hence springs that are too light may have issues with them. Alternatively will a #15 spring be OK?

[hp246]

I bought both of these guns NIB.  Neither had previously been touched by anyone.  The Montado definitely had a cleaner action, though the 4 5/8 wasn't bad.  Based on above discussion I've gone to 30 oz trigger spring and 15 pound hammer spring in both guns.  The 4 5/8 now seems to have a light hammer than the Montado.  I noticed the newer 4 5/8 has a different mainspring seat than the Montado.  The Montado has the locking version.  Wondering if this is leading to a slightly heavier hammer spring. I did find a grip frame, but I think I'm going to fill the grooves, as long as that is going to  be legal.

[Pettifogger]

I bought both of these guns NIB.  Neither had previously been touched by anyone.  The Montado definitely had a cleaner action, though the 4 5/8 wasn't bad.  Based on above discussion I've gone to 30 oz trigger spring and 15 pound hammer spring in both guns.  The 4 5/8 now seems to have a light hammer than the Montado.  I noticed the newer 4 5/8 has a different mainspring seat than the Montado.  The Montado has the locking version.  Wondering if this is leading to a slightly heavier hammer spring. I did find a grip frame, but I think I'm going to fill the grooves, as long as that is going to  be legal.

Can you post a photo of the spring seats?  The newer New Vaqueros have deleted the locking spring seat.  It should, however, still be the same overall height as the versions with the lock.

[hp246]

I need to figure out how to do that.  Be right back.

[hp246]

I've tried loading the picture twice.  I keep getting an error message.  the second time I cropped it.  Still can't get it to work.  It is clear that the spring on the Montado is wrapped tighter than the other spring.

[Ford D. River]

There can be a big variation in actions of any guns right out of the box.   Some are just that "One of One Thousand."  Others are lemons that just never work right.   Luck of the draw.

I agree with cal44walker.  Most are marginal out of the box.   However, the new Flat Tops in 44 Special seem to have better fitting and actions and better triggers.