Case hardened Uberti frames

[Logan]

Can the cased hardened finish on Uberti revolvers be stripped so the frame can be blued or antiqued?
If so, how?

Thanks

[Coffinmaker]

The case hardening on Uberti frames is not a "finish" or chemical process such as Ruger has used.  The frame are actually color case hardened.  You can reduce some of the "color" with a lot of steel wool or fine wet lr dry sand paper but your gonna be at it for a while.  I serously doubt you will like the results.

Coffinmaker

[Abilene]

I have used Birchwood Casey Rust and Blue Remover and also Naval Jelly to antique a number of Uberti revolvers, and it takes the case colors right off.

[Advertising]

[Fox Creek Kid]

Soak it in vinegar.

[Logan]

I was hoping those items would remove the case hardening colors.
Thanks

[Seth Hawkins]

The case hardening on Uberti frames is not a "finish" or chemical process such as Ruger has used.  The frame are actually color case hardened.  You can reduce some of the "color" with a lot of steel wool or fine wet lr dry sand paper but your gonna be at it for a while.  I serously doubt you will like the results.

Coffinmaker

What guns are you talking about?  Rifles?  Pistols?  Is this their US CH finish you're referring to, or their standard CH finish?

[Mike]

Just started taking the colour case of my 73 and it does chome off easly,  I have also removed all the uberti markings and the CH is not very deep, the blue takes better were the markings have been removed.
It will take awhile to get the whole frame even but I dont like the CH colour.

[Cliff Fendley]

There is some debate on how the Uberti standard case coloring is applied, what I can say for sure is it is not durable at all. I have a couple guns with almost grey frames from normal handling. I'm certain steel wool would take it off in short order.

The Ubert standard case coloring is nothing to marvel at and looks just as good mostly rubbed off.

Not a great photo but here is the US finish offered from Cimarron, real CH.

[Mike]

Very nice but in my view to dark.
Most pictures of origanal Colt I have seen have much lighter CH finish.

I do prefer these to the Uberti finish.

[Seth Hawkins]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the standard CCH finish on Uberti's, to include Cimarron's, is an actual case hardened finish.  It's my understanding that, if you want a "true" case hardened finish you have to opt for their "U.S." finish.

I've owned, and currently do own, a number of Cimarron (Uberti) guns that have the CCH finish - revolvers, rifles and shotguns.  The revolvers and rifles have the "standard" CCH finish, while the 1878 shotgun has the "U.S." CCH finish.  The difference is night & day. I've also owned a number of Colt SAA's that were blued/CCH'd.  Their CCH was a "true" CCH and looks remarkably different.

The MAIN difference between the two finishes is this - the "standard" CCH finish will rub off while the "U.S." CCH finish will not.  I believe the reason for this is because the U.S. finish is a true CCH.  I don't know how Uberti applies their standard CCH, but I bet it's not done the same way true CCH is done.

Again, I could be wrong.  If I am please set me straight.  This is an area I've always wanted to know the answers to as I really love the looks of true color case hardened guns.  I do know there is more than one form of CCH'ing.  Old shotguns are one example.  But lets keep the focus on the topic at hand.

[Coffinmaker]

Seth,
The primary differences are the method used to achieve the CCH.  Bone, Charcoal,  Mesquite, etc all result in a different degree of color and hardness, as well as temperature effects depth.  The problem for most of us, we don't know what method at what temperature the hardening is being done.  Also, some of the premium CCH is then coated with a clear sealer, a la  Turnbull.

Coffinmaker

[Blair]

Coffinmaker,

I agree.
Most receiver/frames are case hardened (CH) during the time period.
This CH does not always mean the hardening was done in colors such a color case hardening (CCH). Think Remington New Model Army or Navy.
The hardening process (CH, or CCH) is meant to add durability to the wear and bearing surfaces of various areas.
CCH does add a beauty to the finished product that many find appealing and attractive.
However, it is important to note that even the best "CCH" will tend to fade with use and sun light, if not cared for.

One can use modern "hot blue" right over the top of CCH with good effect. (no polishing required) Only a small amount of the "colors changes" may be visible when finished.
These results can be very satisfactory to most folks.
My best,
Blair

[Seth Hawkins]

Coffinmaker - I agree.  The colors will vary when true CCH'ing is done depending on the ingredients and method.  I'm curious as to the method used by Uberti to achieve their "standard" CCH finish.

My shotgun had that clear coat on it protecting the case hardening, too.  It came off in time from use and cleaning.  My colors are much lighter than those seen on Cliff Fendley's guns in the post above.

[Blair]

Seth,

I can't in all honesty tell you what is being used now.
I do know that Euroarms/ASP used, at least for a while, cyanide salts to create the colors in their "color", and to add case hardening in process.
Just how this was applied/done, I can't in all honesty tell you.
What I can do is provide you with D Pedersoli contact information through my e-mail info. You may contact them on your own if you wish to know what DP is now using
I hope this helps.
My best,
Blair

[Abilene]

...I do know there is more than one form of CCH'ing...

And there ya go.  I believe the method used by Uberti involves heating the parts in some sort of a hot salt bath, then quenching it in cold water.  I have heard from a very good source that, at one time anyway, they weren't paying much attention to the temperature of the water and were not keeping it cold, thus some of the lack of color in some of the frames.  This Uberti method is a method of Color Case Hardening, just as the bone meal charcoal method is another method.  Of course, the latter method is "period correct" as well as more expensive to apply, and results in more of the surface being hardened and more durable as well.  Actually, for modern firearms the steel is already plenty strong, so the CCH is mostly cosmetic. 

For the past several years the SAA frames that Uberti uses for Cimarron have much darker colors.  I do not know what is done differently to those to achieve the darker color.  And their "U.S. Finish" which previously was done by Turnbull has been done by Classic Guns for several years now.  Looks the same as Turnbull to me.

[Cliff Fendley]

Coffinmaker - I agree.  The colors will vary when true CCH'ing is done depending on the ingredients and method.  I'm curious as to the method used by Uberti to achieve their "standard" CCH finish.

My shotgun had that clear coat on it protecting the case hardening, too.  It came off in time from use and cleaning.  My colors are much lighter than those seen on Cliff Fendley's guns in the post above.

Mine are much lighter than the picture shows too, that picture was taken with low light.

[Abilene]

Cliff, beautiful wood on those guns, too!  Did they come that way?  And are those guns charcoal blue or is that just the lighting?

[Cliff Fendley]

Cliff, beautiful wood on those guns, too!  Did they come that way?  And are those guns charcoal blue or is that just the lighting?

No it's just the lighting, I snapped the photo in a hurry with poor light.

Yes they came with those grips, I guess since they were custom order they picked some extra nice grips for them.

I ordered those guns through Cimarron with custom serial numbers they are serial# CLIFF1 and CLIFF2. Last word from Cimarron is the matching 73 rifle serial #CLIFF3 is having the US finish case coloring done now.

Once I get the rifle I'll try and get some good pics of the set and post them.

[Navy Six]

This doesn't answer the case hardening question exactly, but has Uberti started using a different steel in the frames of both cartridge and percussion pistols? I have a bunch of both that are vintage 1990-2000. Just made some recent purchases (51&61 Navies and Dragoons) and when I got inside to polish the frames they seemed harder and it took longer to do as compared to the older models. Also the case coloring is darker and extensively covers the frame, not like the old mostly grey steel with a hint of coloring. Did I get lucky or does this have anything to do with the purchase of Uberti by Beretta?

[Montana Slim]

The dark colors are a result of the composition of their "packing" (bone, charcoal, etc)...essentially the carbon source....and to a degree the size of box they are heated/quenched in and the degree of packing, etc.

Someone hit it when they mentioned their are a number of methods to achieve case hardening. Another term for case hardening is carburizing. From this name, you might guess the end result is to increase the carbon content of the surface of the intended steel...when quenched, provides a thin (.005-.015 thick typical) but super-hard surface...or, "case-depth". I've researched and written a bit about the subject in my work as an engineer.

Low-carbon steels are ideal candidates for case hardening....when surface wear might be expected, or to increase durability...remember the base interior metal is still relatively soft & therefore "tough" (not necessarily strong). Another advantage historically that in the 1800s, they did not have the array of high quality alloy steels of today. This allowed manufacturing operations while the metal was soft and then it could be hardened with (generally) little distortion. Today, alloy steels are often "through-hardened" prior to machining. This reduces distortion, waste and additional processing after heat treatment.

Some steels selected for manufacture today may not be as amenable to the color process or carburizing, hence the techniques to give them a traditional look.

Slim