Unique belly gun... please tell me this isn't what I think this is.

[Short Knife Johnson]

I must start by saying I do feel foolish for reposting this in another section of this forum, and for not simply starting here in the first place.  The original post in the Darksiders section.  http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,49811.0.html

A few weeks ago at the local gun show I made a deal on this character.  The seller was touting it as a "nice quality 'knock-off' of a Colt Paterson.  After some bargaining with a partner in crime, we made a bulk buy (he wound up with a Navy).  I took it to a friends table to get it fitted with new nipples and to procure some goodies.  (I still have the original nips BTW)  The barrel has been expertly trimmed to 3 1/2" precisely.  The insides are mint with a shiny bore and clean chambers.  Mechanics are solid and lock up is like a vault.  Numbers I can see match.  Atop the barrel is inscribed "Patent Arms M'g" as the end of the barrel is cutting off the inscription.  It was then after purchase when reading the barrel that I recalled reading that Sam Colt's first venture was "Patent Arms Company" of Paterson New Jersey.  Furthermore, the scene of the stagecoach robbery is super sharp and clear.  Not to boast, but for the price paid this is might be the blindest squirrel finding the biggest acorn.  Is there someone who can verify this or direct me to someone who knows?  Keep in mind I do not want an appraisal, rather authentication as to if this is indeed a real Paterson, or a REALLY good copy and where it might have come from.

Thanks all, and enjoy the photos.

[Buck Stinson]

At first glance, this little pistol looks real.  However, when you start comparing all the detail, in my opinion, it is a reproduction.  The decorative rings around the cylinder are cut differently, the serial number stamps are way too large and the back end of the cylinder is cut square.  Original Patersons have a rounded back on the nipple end of the cylinder.  These are just a few a the things that I have noticed.  It would be interesting to see the muzzle end of the gun showing the rifling pattern.  Paterson revolver rifling is very unique.   

[Buck Stinson]

Well, I was able to do a little more digging this afternoon and found some interesting facts.  I was correct on all points except the square cut at the back end of the cylinder.  Seems that the early Paterson pocket models had the square cut.  However, according to the Paterson book I have, serial number 132 Pocket Model is already a known gun in a private collection on the east coast.  The barrel markings are different on the pocket models, also.  Again, the rifling pattern will probably tell the truth.

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[St. George]

I wondered when you'd decide to post this here...

In looking it over, I'd say Coffinmaker's right - a neatly de-farbed Italian piece - maybe an old Navy Arms rendition.

Someone took their time, and it presents well.

Were it a real Paterson, CAS City gets looked at by enough Colt and antique gun collectors that someone would've crawled through your cable to offer to buy it.

Neat piece - now, go build the rest of your Impression around it.

Vaya, 

Scouts Out!

[Short Knife Johnson]

Finally got off my butt and got some photos of the inside of this thing.  Now this is not meant as a slight to Buck Stinson's research but this piece is not a .28 calibre Pocket model, but a (representation of) .36 calibre #5 Holster model or "Texas Paterson."  True the early pieces had squareback cylinders, this one features the stagecoach scenes and not the Centaur scene of the Pocket.  I'm also not going to proclaim this to be a genuine article.  The one thing I firmly believe is that the hand cut, slightly off-centre screw heads do not scream modern repro made to look old.  But in the end, it matters not - truth be told, if it was modern piece, it would be a relief because I would shoot the hell out of it.   

Time for more pictures. 




11 grooves and 11 lands.

[Short Knife Johnson]

So, I got the brainwave to contact the NRA National Firearms Museum in Fairfax VA yesterday. This has still been bugging me.
Spoke to a fellow by the name of Logan.  He had me send him some pictures and my description of the piece. First thing this morning, I received this reply.

What you have is a cut-down No. 5 made during the Colt centennial. Someone took great care in aging the piece to make it look like an original, but to a trained eye, it is not.

If you'd be interested in donating it to the museum, we'd love to add it to our "Fakes and Forgeries" collection.

Does this sound legitimate to anyone? 

[St. George]

Yes.

The work could have been done by Tom Haas or by Horacio Acevedo (who often worked with Haas) - both did superb work of this nature, recreating to order.

Scouts Out!

[Hondo44]

I think it's very cool and would love to find one like it.

I would not want an original because even though I might be able to afford it, I wouldn't want that much money tied up in one gun and especially one that would be a safe queen.

Now that you know what it is, was it worth what you paid for it to you? That's all that really matters!

Jim

[Short Knife Johnson]

Yeah, I'm a bit closer on getting a bead on what it is.  I spoke to the historical department at Colt.  Was told there was no such thing as a run of revolvers made for their "centennial" post war.  In fact, there were no cap & ball guns to leave the factory from 1870 to 1976.

[St. George]

I wonder how they explain all the Model 1849s, 1851s and 1860s they kept in production until 1873, then...

Colt's historical department is frequently wrong.

They use Wilson's booklet and 'Proofhouse' just as often as everyone else does, so their big draw is their historical letter, and for one of those, you have to open up your wallet, first.

What are you beginning to narrow down?

Scouts Out!