My new old 1873 carbine arrived today!

[ndnchf]

The 1873 carbine I purchased (made in 1892) finally arrived today.  The USPS misrouted my certified letter payment so it took nearly a week longer to get it than expected.  Its as nice as the photos I posted show.



I removed the sideplates and inspected the links, pins etc. and all looked well.  But I noticed the lever safety was not working.  So I removed the lower tang and disassembed the trigger, hammer, springs and safety.  I didn't need to take it all apart, but I figured while I had it this far, I might as well clean and inspect the hammer notches and sear.   They looked good, but I found the tip of the lever safety bar that blocks the trigger was broken off and missing.  I dug thgrough my meager spare parts bin and was greatly surprised to find an original safety lever bar.  After cleaning and lubing everything, I put it all back together and it works great now.  I then slugged the bore and found it to measure .432" in the grooves.  Looks like I'll be ordering a mould from Accurate to fit my carbine.  Its a beautful little carbine and I'm very pleased with it.  

[Blackpowder Burn]

That's a really clean looking little rifle.  I know you'll get a lot of enjoyment from it. 

[dusty texian]

Sure is a fine looking carbine there ndnchf" . Really neat when you find one that is in good condition like that one. Most 73 carbine's had a rough life,and show it .Glad fer Ya.,,,,,Dusty

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[ndnchf]

Thanks Fellas.  I've been thinking about bullets and recall that I have a .44 MAV mould that I may try.  I don't recall what size the bullets drop out as, its been 5 or 6 years since I've used it.  But I'm thinking it may have been .431", but I'll have to check my records when I get home tonight.  If thats the case, with a soft alloy it may still shoot ok.  I have some .44WCF loaded with FFG Goex and this bullet from 5 or 6 years ago, but I sized the bullets to .429" for an Uberti Henry I used to have.  They probably won't shoot well in this rifle, but I'll take some to the range to test functionality at least.  Maybe I'll be surprised.   

[cpt dan blodgett]

My 92 rossi was made wrong at the factory.  Bore Slugs .435 - .436 depending on how mic'd.  Looks like they drilled a .429 hole then rifled rather than a .421 rifled out to .429. (Rossi has long since figured this out and new barrels do not have the problem)  Hard cast bullets Key hole at 25 - 50 yards.  Deparado soft cast .430 shoot round holes and group about 6 inches or so at 100 loaded to about 900 fps from a pistol with AA2.  With a soft alloy you should have no problem bumping up the bullet to fill the bore

[Mean Bob Mean]

That is too beautiful.

[ndnchf]

Thanks Mean Bob.  I really like the gently earned patina. It has an excellent bore as well.  This one was taken care of. Capt. Dan - I hope your right.  I hope to fire up the lead pot this weekend and make a batch of MAV bullets.

[KirkD]

That is a beautiful original '73 carbine. I'm envious. I have an original '73 rifle that also slugs with a groove diameter of .432. I ordered a mould from Accurate that drops them at .432 but I size to .431 since a .432 bullet will not chamber, but a .431 just slides in with only the slightest hint of snugness. I use soft cast bullets (pure clip on wheel weights air cooled) and the bullets bump up nicely such that I can get five shot groups at 100 yards of about 2 & 1/2".

[ndnchf]

Kirk - browsing the net, I see quite a few originals of the 1880-1890s era seem to run .432".  I'm encouraged to hear how well yours shoots with a .431" bullet.  I think my .44 MAV mould will drop a .431" bullet, so I may be in business. I doubt I'll get the groups you do.  My eyes, carbine sights with no tang sight will be a challenge.  But I'm looking forward to trying. 

[Grizzly Adams]

Kirk - browsing the net, I see quite a few originals of the 1880-1890s era seem to run .432".  I'm encouraged to hear how well yours shoots with a .431" bullet.  I think my .44 MAV mould will drop a .431" bullet, so I may be in business. I doubt I'll get the groups you do.  My eyes, carbine sights with no tang sight will be a challenge.  But I'm looking forward to trying. 

Here's mine.  It was made during the same time period, and is .432 as well.  It has a pretty nice bore, but bullets sized to .428 will tumble!  .430 seems to work pretty well in mine.



congratulations on your 1873 SRC!  You are lucky, most carbines got rode hard and put away wet.  Finding one in good condition is pretty neat.

[w44wcf]

ndnchf,
Nice find!;D  Hope it shoots well for you.   My '73 Short Rifle (21" barrel) made in 1882 runs close to .434" average. It's .435" in front of the chamber and .433" at the muzzle. I find that .431" 50/1 lead / tin bullet over b.p. bumps up nicely to fill the groove and gives accurate shooting, even though the bore is a bit rough. I found that 20/1 bullets don't shoot as well;D 

Grizzly Adams,
Nice looking '73 also.

w44wcf

   

[ndnchf]

Nice carbine Grizz.  No doubt that one's earned its keep.  Glad to hear you fellas are having good success with these large bores. 

I took mine to the range yesterday to test fire it with some BP rounds I had loaded several years ago for anther rifle.  It loaded, cycled and fired ok.  But then I ran into a problem.  Extraction was quite difficult.  After getting the first shell out I looked at everything and ran a patch down the bore just to make sure everything was clear - it was.  I fired another shot, same difficult extraction, so I stopped there.  After I got home, I examined the fired cases and found the problem.  The chamber is out of round and seems to have a corroded area or bulge at the 12 O’clock position, from the case mouth back about 1/2 inch.
 


 No wonder it was hard to extract!  Externally, there is no bulging of the barrel or any other visible signs of a problem.  Shining a light inside, I can see some pitting in the chamber.  But I can’t see the top of the chamber, so it’s hard to tell what caused the problem.

So that’s the bad news.  The good news is I just talked to John Taylor at Taylor Machine, a well respected master at barrel work on old rifles.  I described the situation to him and he’s pretty sure that he can reline the chamber.  The bore is near excellent, with just a little scattered pitting, so I really don’t want to reline the whole thing, when just the chamber is the problem.  As you can imagine, it’s a little disappointing.  But I don’t blame the seller.  I bought it from a well respected dealer in antique arms as a 120 year old antique.  Without firing it, they would not have known.  I really like the carbine otherwise, so I will proceed with getting it repaired and enjoy it for many years to come.  Life is too short to get upset over the small things in life.  So I’ll pack it off to John Taylor next week and wait patiently (well, sort of) for him work his magic.  While he has it, he’s going to repair the worn cartridge support on the bolt face and go over the action and make sure everything else is in good shape.  It will be worth the wait. 

[Grizzly Adams]

Sorry to hear that.  Putting a new chamber in it should take care of it without really affecting it in terms of originality. 

I looked into relining the barrel in an old 44WCF carbine I had some years back, and was told that the barrels on these don't have enough meat to support a 44WCF reline.  Anyone else been told that?

[Abilene]

Beautiful carbine you got there.  Friend of mine had a double charge (smokeless) in his old 44-40 '92 and it bulged the chamber like that.  I think Lonnie Ammann in Hearne, TX relined the chamber for him.

[ndnchf]

I've read that carbine barrels are too thin to reline also. But I didn't ask John about it. Since mine has a nice bore, I should be ok. In my conversation with John, he said to look at the bottom of the barrel, below the chamber to see if it was bulged or split.  The barrel is machined on the bottom to make clearance for the magazine tube.  He said the barrel is thinnest here and its where they typically bulge or split from an overly hot cartridge. I removed the magazine tube and inspected the barrel closely.  There is no sign of bulging or a split.  So that's a relief. Since the fired case is bulged at the 12 to 1 O'clock position. I tend to think it was caused by corrosion somehow. By the overall good condition of the carbine, I suspect its had this issue for a long time and sat unused.  If it could only talk!  

Update - I really wanted to see the chamber, so this morning I tried to unscrew the barrel.  I was surprised to find it came out pretty easily.  I could clearly see the out of round chamber.  I'm not much of a photographer, but I experimented with my 10 year old digital camera and was able to get this shot.  I think you can see the problem.  It almost looks like a bad chambering job.

[w44wcf]

ndnchf,
Sorry to hear of the bad chamber.  Great to know that it can be relined to give that vintage carbine a new lease on life.
I look forward to your further adventures with that vintage Winchester........

w44wcf

.

[ndnchf]

Update - I got a call from John Taylor, unfortunately it was bad news.  Not only was the chamber bad, but there is a bulge in the barrel too.  It is very hard to tell from the outside but he found it when checking the bore.  Since the carbine barrel is too small to reline I had two choices: make it a wall hanger or put a new barrel on it. I'm not much for wall hangers, so he is going to put a new Badger barrel on it.  In hindsight, the bad barrel is probably why the carbine is in such good shape.  It probably hung on someone else's wall for many years due to the chamber/bore problem. 

Oh well - no point lamenting its problems.  It should be an excellent shooter when John gets done with it.

[Thumper]

I've got a 73 made in 1892 in 32-20. I had to go the whole reline route and couldn't be more pleased with the results. There's a good feeling to bringing a piece of history back to life, congrats on your's !!

[Abilene]

How far down the barrel is the bulge?  I have an Uberti .357 carbine with TWO bulges, close to eachother and about midway down the bore.  Not sure how it happened, but I loaned it to new shooters a few times in the past and have to assume it happened then.  Anyway, it still shoots great and I've heard of others say their guns with bulges shot okay.  So, if your chamber is fixable or sleevable, possibly it might still be a decent shooter?  Good luck.

[Buck Stinson]

Several years ago, I had an early second model carbine with a thumb print dust cover that had an oversize bore.  It too was .431 or .432.  I had a mold made for it, but then couldn't chamber the ammunition because the chamber was to tight for the bullet diameter.  I had no choice but to have it relined.  Rooster Redmond in Washington relined the barrel to .427 bore size.  He said it was an extremely difficult job, because the barrels are so thin.  He said he'll never do another carbine.  The gun turned out to be a tack driver and outwardly, showed no signs of any reline.  I've since gotten rid of the gun and now have two gorgeous 1st model carbines with mint bores.  These two guns are both .428 bore size.